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ZippyDSMlee
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[QUOTE]
Re: King’s Quest-based Project Incurs Wrath of Activision
Submitted by nightwng2000 - March 1, 2010 at 8:00 pm -0500

When was the last time the corporation earned any income from the IP?

What evidence have they shown that they have, or have had, active intent to actually USE the IP to earn any amount from the IP?

What evidence does Activision have that can been shown that their claim to the IP isn't anything but fraud (the intentional lie and deceit that they intend to use the IP for the purpose of depriving others of their Right to Freedom of Expression as opposed to sitting on the IP, to be unused, and denying others the Right to Freedom of Expression using the material, whether commercially or otherwise, considering that it's already been declared that it was for non-commercial use by the fan studio).

Yeah, I'm sure you'll whine about the use of the word "fraud". But, let us lay it out there. Activision, among other companies from a variety of media formats, have CLAIMED they are holding on to various IPs for potential future opportunity, then NEVER take it. The corporations, in their high and mighty CLAIMS of IP protection, need to be held to the same standard. If they, in fact, DON'T make future use of the IP, then they need to be held accountable for making FALSE claims, especially by those who have actively shown they CAN, and WOULD, have use for the IP.

Lack of use, not merely claim to ownership, needs to count. And not merely over extensively long periods of time.

CAN Activision show they have an INTENT to use the IP? If not, then the IP ownership should be surrendered to public domain. IF they CLAIM they have INTENT, and DON'T use it after a set amount of time after making the claim, then such an act SHOULD be actionable. As fraud. There should be NO sugar coating this.

Nightwng2000

NW2K Software

[url]http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000[/url]

Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as [url]http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl[/url]

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Re: King’s Quest-based Project Incurs Wrath of Activision
Submitted by ZippyDSMlee - March 1, 2010 at 8:46 pm -0500

I have often mused about mixing CP/IP with how trade marks work, you have to show that the IP/CP is bing used in a meaningful way or you lose that right of exclusivity.

So say after 5 years of nothing produced the item can not be easily protected from non profit based fair use after 10 years of nothing new produced it falls to public domain.

Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! CP/IP laws should not effect the daily life of common people! [url]http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/[/url]

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Re: King’s Quest-based Project Incurs Wrath of Activision
Submitted by nightwng2000 - March 1, 2010 at 8:52 pm -0500

I'd say you have to have a finished, publishing product within 10 years. It can't be, at the end of 10 years, "oh, look, we're 'working on it', give us more time".

Now, what about quality of what the company produces? Do they just churn out something, crappy or otherwise or filled with bugs that cause it to crash the moment you even think about starting it? If they are so concerned about the IP, they shouldn't do that. But, if they are just simply doing it to block any fan production, then there needs to be a way to determine the intent of the finished product to determine intent on what they publish.

Nightwng2000

NW2K Software

[url]http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000[/url]

Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as [url]http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl[/url]

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Re: King’s Quest-based Project Incurs Wrath of Activision
Submitted by ZippyDSMlee - March 3, 2010 at 11:15 am -0500

Well first off to ensure the public is protected you can't release a book or comic and claim all of the IP/CP for said item, comic for comics/visual novels , book for book and writing, film for film and TV or web video production of 30 minutes or more for episodic style productions. This works in 10 year periods to keep the IP/CP claim alive, if the item in question never hits the 5 year mark then in all practicality all variants of the CP/IP are protected untill the 5 year mark is hit then the IP/CP is broken into the above sub sects at that time fair use protection claims(the IP/CP pwner complaining about non profit based uses of thier property) on the item in question get less protection for non profit use after 5 years of non use, this is a good way to sort out some things.

Now for the last bit of your question will any new sold to the public licensed release do? I would think not it would have to met basic profit standards of the day, those standards would be making X profit to 50% of whats considered a "block buster" or 1+ million item seller, if it fails to gain the publics notice then either the item in question is either let go of or you have a temporary public domain status of the IP/CP where anyone who can make a block buster level profit in the product wins the IP/CP rights maybe with giving 10% of made profits to the old CP/IP holder if they agree to transfer rights if not it falls to public domain. And I am being incredibly leiant here with these thoughts......

edit for attnetion

nighty *pokepokepoke* uuu no reply?

Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! CP/IP laws should not effect the daily life of common people! [url]http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/[/url]

* reply

Re: King’s Quest-based Project Incurs Wrath of Activision
Submitted by nightwng2000 - March 3, 2010 at 11:50 am -0500

Length of time will always vary from opinion to opinion. I don't think we'll ever find a consensus as to what is an "appropriate" amount of time.

I think 10 years is sufficient to allow work on other projects, but at the same time allow proof of intent to keep the IP active.

It would also tend to be subjective as to what was being produced and the intent. A serious intent to create something but end up churning out crap is still possible. How often have we seen that original work got rave reviews while sequels were panned despite the desire to keep a series alive and kicking?

It also wouldn't be odd to find that, in those situations, the preception of the "consumer" (commercial or otherwise) is that Fan Fiction and/or Non-Canon actually turns out better as sequel than the official sequel release.

While the author/creator has their own preception of what their original material was meant to convey, it isn't beyond the realm of understanding that the consumer may have a different preception of the original material and wonder what the author/creator of the original product was thinking when the original author/creator pops out a sequel.

What some authors/creators fail to realize is that their material make take a life of its own, not by thier hands but by the audience itself. And it's a childish attitude for them to take when they throw fits over someone else offering their own preceptions on the material. "No! No! That's not what I meant!" Well, tough. Some of the audience got something different out of your work than what you wanted them to.

See my study suggestion in a post further down as to who should actually be the considered the actual one doing the harm to the material.

Some sabitage, to hold on to an IP that isn't really going to be used, will be obvious. Others not so much. But still, we need to recognize that potential. It may not even be about greed, especially with a product that isn't generating actual income any longer. It just may be more about childish selfishness ("Mine! Mine! All Mine!")

Nightwng2000

NW2K Software

[url]http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000[/url]

Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as [url]http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl[/url]
[/QUOTE]

Redacted the DS trolling crap.

[QUOTE]
Re: King’s Quest-based Project Incurs Wrath of Activision
Submitted by ZippyDSMlee - March 3, 2010 at 1:38 pm -0500

Question should music use 5/10 year standard? I suppose if it sales the question of it being protected should not be questioned much.

10 years is a good point for looking at the over all CP/IP and judging if it should remain a exclusive property, 5 years is a good point to sub categorize the main ways a CP/IP is made IE visual print,print small production video be it TV or web or large production video as film. I do like my temporary 5 public domain status and transfer of rights ieda after the 10 years is up it forces business to try one last time to make something of the IP/CP before it forever falls into public domain. As for determining what makes a IP/CP worth keeping exclusive is how much it sells if it can not push at the very least 5 million units in 5 years it starts the IP/CP into public domain preparation mode and if 10 million units are not sold in 10 years time it falls to temporary public domain status where business rush to make a 1 or 2 million unit seller to win the rights from the previous IP/CP owner if it falls to sell it becomes public domain if it dose the rights are transfered to the new owners and the old owners get 10% of future sales, this only goes to the last previous owner of a IP/CP not all the past previous owners.

Don't forget to reply to this nighty :P

Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! CP/IP laws should not effect the daily life of common people! [url]http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/[/url]

* reply

Re: King’s Quest-based Project Incurs Wrath of Activision
Submitted by nightwng2000 - March 3, 2010 at 7:29 pm -0500

In regards to music, it typically does not have "sequal" or even parallel creations that rely on the original work.

Even in ballads, you typically don't have a follow-up to the ballad. There may be one or two unique cases, but I can't cite them as I am not familiar with them.

So, in the case of music, the IP/CP pertains to making copies. That's outside the bounds of the issue of Fan Fiction and Non-Canon work made as sequels or parallels to the original material.

As to amount sold at the commercial level, IP should exist even if the original material was non-commercial. It implies that only commmercial material should be granted IP based on your statement. Additionally, even small amounts of interest in the material does not necessarily mean that the material isn't legitimately presented.

When the original material is released, its intent is always clear as the IP of the original product is new. It's value, for good or ill, to others, should be irrelevant in considering whether intent in future usage of the IP is real or not. When use of the material for Fan Fiction or Non-Canon work surfaces and the original/current IP owner declares their intent to use it and deny access to the IP by others, then the timeframe needs to be set. They've announced, officially, they intend to use it. Now they need to prove it and show SERIOUS intent, rather than merely a blocking intent, to use the IP.

The issue of when the timeframe actually starts comes up, of course.

Does the timeframe actually begin:

(1) From the moment of original publication.

(2) From the moment all officially published materials have been distributed (which becomes difficult from the standpoint of digitally distributed material).

(3) From the moment evidence of no further commercial income is being made (which becomes difficult from the standpoint of the original material being non-commercially provided).

(4) From the moment the owner envokes IP protection, such as when they deny others the usage of the IP, regardless of how long since numbers 1-3.

Nightwng2000

NW2K Software

[url]http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000[/url]

Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as [url]http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl[/url]

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Re: King’s Quest-based Project Incurs Wrath of Activision
Submitted by ZippyDSMlee - March 4, 2010 at 12:22 am -0500

I think you are mixing the issues, fan creations,ect are the realm of fair use and not CP as a whole. Its simple expand fair use to protect all non profit non commercial extsntions of a IP/CP.

When it comes to making a commercial profit that should be in the bounds of the license and the holder of that license, a CP/IP is made and produced after the point tis sold to the public the clock starts, if they can not sell X amount they lose CP/IP protection in 5 year interments first 5 years they have to show each sub grouping of the CP/IP (web vid/TV,film,Comic/vis novel,audio,games,pictures and writing) is sellingX amount(1-2 million each)

At the 10 year mark the whole property must show its making a worth while profit of 10 or so million unit sales, if any one part of the CP/IP sells more than 5 million units all

of the sub groups are protected together as a whole property, if it can not then each sub group needs to show via sell amounts to maintain protection for its sub group.

Is hard to fake X million unit sales, I mean look at a few games like Mad world its not even hit 2 million figures yet. Tho all this concidered we can rise the sell amount bar to 10 milloin in 5 years for all IP protection, 3 mill per sub group to protect that sub group, and 20 milloin over 10 years to prevent it from falling into public domain.

Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! CP/IP laws should not effect the daily life of common people! [url]http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/[/url]

* reply

Re: King’s Quest-based Project Incurs Wrath of Activision
Submitted by nightwng2000 - March 4, 2010 at 8:56 am -0500

A blanket amount, income or sold amount, just isn't going to work because of different levels of publishing methods, quality of the publisher, existance of the publisher, who exactly holds the IP currently (company versus individual), etc.

And even a single product that makes use of an IP in various media formats, as you say, needs to be taken into consideration. The IP for Star Trek for example. Movies, TV shows, books, computer/video games, magazine stories, music, etc all are in existance. But not all are active at any given moment. It's been a few years since the last TV episode. The IP holder may consider ALL access to the Star Trek IP as one entity. But you're suggesting break it into seperate formats and treat each one individually.

We also have to consider IPs in the same format, but that are still different. Material that is generated from a novel is not the same as material generated from a short story (whether that short story appeared as part of a collected book or in a magazine). Material sold as part of a collection cannot be evaluated based on income in regards to its own merits.

And then there are the products that just simply will never generate what major publishing companies can produce, income or amount of sales. But they can still have significant value.

And then there is the desire by many to create Fan Fiction and Non-Canon work while an IP holder is still actively using the IP. These individuals really do still have the Right to Freedom of Expression. Star Trek Fan fiction and Non-Canon material. One could argue that permission shouldn't have to be obtained for non-commercial purposes.

One could easily say that IP and CP should protect the original product directly (prevent others from claiming they are the author/creator of the original work) and beyond that only protect active material from unauthorized commercial use. Inactive IP usage would then be all that falls within the discussion.

Nightwng2000

NW2K Software

[url]http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000[/url]

Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as [url]http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl[/url]

* reply

Re: King’s Quest-based Project Incurs Wrath of Activision
Submitted by ZippyDSMlee - March 4, 2010 at 2:18 pm -0500

I suppose it can be easy enough to fudge sell numbers but that would harm the IP via intinetally reporting mis information.

I also see where you going, how about this regional vrs national unit sales, if you sale on a local or regional basis you have to sell X amount on a smaller scale than if you would if you offered it nationally, in order to tell what is what you base in where the advertisement goes and how much national sales you make.

Let me think more on the sub group idea Music and spoken word are separate, Sounds has a its own niche,Comics and visual stories are the same, pictures are thier own niche, Video web eps and TV is the same as they are short video productions, a novel is the same as a short story since they are literaturrty works and film is a long video production . So lets break it down more Music, Spoken word, Sound,Pictures/illustrations, Visual literature, literature,Short video production and Long video production. Now Games and interactive media can be considered long/short visual audio productions so they are trreated as either short or long video productions. Also for the sake of argument gameplay mechanic/styles and coding styles can not be copy righted to mundane and and subtle to copy right that.

So lets play with some rules
Local/regional quota:Min unit sales in 5 years time to protect the over all CP/IP:25K,min unit sales in 10 years time to protect the over all CP/IP :50K
Subgroup quota:Min unit sales in 5 years time to protect the specific CP/IP subgroup:2K
If a CP/IP in question has more than 30% notional sales(a sale made out side the state or 1200 miles away) then it moves to national quotas.
Notes:With these low limits you protect small regional stuff.
-------------------------

Min unit sales in 5 years time to protect the over all CP/IP:5M,min unit sales in 10 years time to protect the over all CP/IP :10M
Subgroup quota:Min unit sales in 5 years time to protect the specific CP/IP subgroup:2M
Notes:Higher numbers to force them to do more with their CP/IP on a national/world wide scale.

Now we move on to what makes a unit, individual itemized unit's be it a physical copy or a digital copy this are whole unit sales. When one builds a package to use for advertising this counts as 0.001 of a whole unit when its buys a time slot, so 1000 sold ads= 1 whole unit sale, for the sake of calculating a local regional advertisement on a national scale use a 0.01 ratio.

Now that gives us alot of numbers to play with alot of fudging and what not can happen so you layer 2 more rules on, intentionally screwing with reported or tallied numbers gets those involved a fine and if the IP/CP owners are the ones doing it they have their quote numbers tripled. Another rule is the 30% rule ,take 30% from the numbers given and that is the number levels you use for the sake of determining if a IP/CP protection status ends.

I like using numbers as whimsical as they can be under real world stresses it seems a better arguing point that trying to get into value,potential value and other much more vague things.

=======================
With that said what happens when protection ends, I lean to taking and doing soemthign with that IP/CP before dumping it permentaly into public domain. But that may well be to harsh, so when protection status ends the IP/CP is pretty much in the public domain until they do something with the IP/CP at that time only the remastered or new goods from the IP/CP may be protected moving forward.How dose that sound.

I know I am taking what you said and making into zippy speak LOL, but anything sound worth while?

Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! CP/IP laws should not effect the daily life of common people! [url]http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/[/url]
[/QUOTE]
[url]http://gamepolitics.com/2010/03/01/king’s-quest-based-project-incurs-wrath-activision[/url]
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Nighty I hope you do not mind me bringing this in its just easier to keep up with it here.

__________________

Ah modern gaming its like modern film only the watering down of fiction and characters is replaced with shallow and watered down mechanics, gimmicks and shiny-er "people".
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Incoherence is my friend and grammar my bane, which is the fulcrum of suffering I place upon others!:ZippyDSMlee
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