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View Full Version : Rap lyrics from a murderer can help convict him


Demontestament
12-20-2006, 06:59 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/12/20/gangsta.lyrics.ap/index.html

NEW YORK (AP) -- When police arrested Ronell Wilson, his pockets were stuffed with the type of violent poetry that boys have been scribbling in notebooks since the advent of gangsta rap.

In his lyrics, Wilson called himself "Rated R," warned any challengers to wear a bulletproof vest, and boasted of leaving .45-caliber slugs in the heads of his enemies.

The clumsy verses may never land Wilson a record deal, but to prosecutors, they were solid gold.

Wilson went on trial in federal court in Brooklyn this month on charges he murdered two undercover police officers, and the government presented the lyrics to a jury as evidence that the 23-year-old is a remorseless killer.

Prosecutor Morris J. Fodeman asked jurors to take special note of one stanza: "Ain't goin' stop to I'm dead."

The jury convicted Wilson on Wednesday, and he now faces a possible death sentence.

The use of rap lyrics at trial is a tactic that has been embraced by prosecutors across the country in recent years.

In cases ranging from small-time robberies to high-profile murders, investigators have discovered that the lead suspects are also wannabe rappers who have written ultra-violent fantasies about murdering and raping their way through life.

Introducing such writings into evidence is not always easy. But in many instances, there is enough of a resemblance between art and life to persuade a judge to say yes.

The result can be disaster for defendants.

In October, a jury convicted a reputed gang member of murdering a 17-year-old boy in Chico, California, after hearing two tracks from a rap CD he had co-written under the street name "Young Saint." The recording warned that rivals would die "looking at my barrel with your very last breath."

In February, an 18-year-old was convicted of a murder near Staunton, Virginia, after the prosecution brought up a rap he composed in jail that referred to the killing.

Last year, a jury in Alabama sentenced a man named Nathaniel Woods to death for his role in the murder of three Birmingham police officers after prosecutors showed the jury rap lyrics and drawings he kept in jail that glorified the slayings.

"In our case, they gave him the death penalty because he had such a terrible mouth," said Rita Briles, one of Woods' attorneys.

The growing use of lyrics in court has predictably bothered some defense attorneys, who worry about prosecutors introducing violent, curse-filled verses simply to make a defendant look bad in front of a middle-class jury.

"The fallacy of it is that it confuses art with fact," said Bruce Rogow, who defended the Florida rap group 2 Live Crew on obscenity charges in the 1990s. "What you see are prosecutors reaching for anything they can to try to paint bad character."

Philadelphia defense attorney Michael Coard, who also teaches a class on hip hop at Temple University, said attempting to use rap as a window into a defendant's mind is especially problematic, given rap's tradition of overtly ridiculous braggadocio.

"It's about boasting. It's about exaggerating. ... It's about acting," he said. "If Robert De Niro, or Al Pacino or Marlon Brando are charged with shooting somebody, are they going to be playing clips from `The Godfather' in court?"

Judges occasionally agree.

When rap star Beanie Sigel was sentenced on gun charges in Philadelphia in 2004, a federal prosecutor quoted Sigel lyrics about pouring acid on children and raping pregnant women.

The judge was dismissive, saying that Sigel was simply playing a character for his fans. Sigel, who has a long rap sheet, was later acquitted of attempted murder in an unrelated case.

The rapper's attorney, Fortunato Perri Jr., said he has had a tougher time downplaying the significance of rap lyrics written by other, less-famous clients.

"If we have to deal with it at trial, the argument in front of a jury is that it is just kids goofing off, imitating things that they hear from world renowned artists," Perri said.

In September, a prosecutor in Richmond, California, held up cardboard signs bearing rap lyrics as he made his closing argument against a teenager accused of murdering a high school football player. The teen, Darren Pratcher, had written a rap in which he had warned: "If you ain't from our part of town, you're a (expletive) target."

Prosecutor David Brown told jurors Pratcher was simply acting out that philosophy when he gunned down his victim, who was not from the neighborhood.

The jury voted to convict.

"They were words of his soul," Brown said of the teen's writings. "It was my understanding from his lyrics that he knew exactly who he was shooting."

Pratcher, who was 15 at the time of the shooting, could get life in prison.


Oh this is gold, this guys ****ty rap lyrics where he brags about his killings can get him a death sentence. I must say this is poetic justice at it's best.

wrench115
12-20-2006, 07:45 PM
Has already happened twice before in the past. Cant think of the guys name but he was a pretty popular underground rapper. The police found that his rap song and what happened in the murder were identical. I believe he was a suspect to begin with anyway. Also I think C-Murder who was apart of No Limit records back around the late 90's similiar situation.

BetaSword
12-20-2006, 08:29 PM
"Ain't goin' stop to I'm dead."

THE GRAMMER!!! IT BURNS MY EYES!!! THEY BLEEEEEEEEED!!!!

That, my friends, is an example of truly horrific grammer.

Oh, and the guy's an idiot, too. Period.

Garbage Pail Kid
12-20-2006, 09:50 PM
THE GRAMMER!!! IT BURNS MY EYES!!! THEY BLEEEEEEEEED!!!!

That, my friends, is an example of truly horrific grammer.

Oh, and the guy's an idiot, too. Period.

The guy who played Frasier? Or did you mean grammar?

Thefremen
12-20-2006, 11:36 PM
Well, at least they're writing about what they know? This is a bit disturbing in some respects though, if someone clones a dinosaur and uses it as a murder weapon will that make Micheal Crichton a suspect?

Dagrak
12-21-2006, 04:49 AM
Reminds me of this stand up comic who joked about a bank robbery...except that there was a police officer in the crowd who found it all a little too similar to a case he was investigating. A quick arrest later and the comic was found guilty!

EDIT: On a second glance its actually quite disturbing to see this stuff being used in a courtroom. Its only slightly away from the violent games = violent person argument. I mean if people saw my notebook (full of false occult writing, symbols, necromantic monsters) they could try and claim I'm unhinged by using the same tactics. I think if the lyrics actually talk about a specific crime's details then yeah, fair enough, but using it just to convict someone and say they are a killer is kinda dangerous.

KN
12-21-2006, 05:50 AM
Finally.....

Thefremen
12-21-2006, 06:04 AM
Reminds me of this stand up comic who joked about a bank robbery...except that there was a police officer in the crowd who found it all a little too similar to a case he was investigating. A quick arrest later and the comic was found guilty!

EDIT: On a second glance its actually quite disturbing to see this stuff being used in a courtroom. Its only slightly away from the violent games = violent person argument. I mean if people saw my notebook (full of false occult writing, symbols, necromantic monsters) they could try and claim I'm unhinged by using the same tactics. I think if the lyrics actually talk about a specific crime's details then yeah, fair enough, but using it just to convict someone and say they are a killer is kinda dangerous.

Luckily I can only be prosecuted if someone unleashes grey plague on a space colony, or if a confederation of planets gets involved in an ongoing civil war on an alien world by smuggling in weapons to the side that they favor.

Dagrak
12-21-2006, 06:26 AM
Luckily I can only be prosecuted if someone unleashes grey plague on a space colony, or if a confederation of planets gets involved in an ongoing civil war on an alien world by smuggling in weapons to the side that they favor.

Well true, of course if anyone investigates that spate of zombie attacks...

Silver_Derstin
12-21-2006, 09:16 AM
Luckily I can only be prosecuted if someone unleashes grey plague on a space colony, or if a confederation of planets gets involved in an ongoing civil war on an alien world by smuggling in weapons to the side that they favor.

I could get arrested for bar brawls, conspiring to discover the secret of the Gods, suppressing violent civil wars, and the list goes on and on and on...

KN
12-21-2006, 10:03 AM
Can you be charged with deicide?

Silver_Derstin
12-21-2006, 10:13 AM
Can you be charged with deicide?

This would be quite entertaining as a trial... If you "killed God(s)" but nobody found the body (since he is not part of this world), what kind of evidence would they be able to use?

Demontestament
12-21-2006, 12:45 PM
This would be quite entertaining as a trial... If you "killed God(s)" but nobody found the body (since he is not part of this world), what kind of evidence would they be able to use?

But if Xenogears taught us anything, it is that you can only kill God with a Mech Suit, and since nobody has a working model yet there is nothing to worry about....if you are God :D

Silver_Derstin
12-21-2006, 12:57 PM
But if Xenogears taught us anything, it is that you can only kill God with a Mech Suit, and since nobody has a working model yet there is nothing to worry about....if you are God :D

But Shadow Hearts taught us that you can beat up god with your bare hands, a sword, a staff wielded by an old man, getting whacked by a book or shot by a handgun. All which we have access to at the moment.

Demontestament
12-21-2006, 01:22 PM
But Shadow Hearts taught us that you can beat up god with your bare hands, a sword, a staff wielded by an old man, getting whacked by a book or shot by a handgun. All which we have access to at the moment.

And even God knows that the book will lead to papercut, and papercuts ****ing hurt.

steelcobra
12-21-2006, 01:29 PM
Everybody knows that the best way to kill a god is if nobody thinks they exist.

Which is why there are no gods in Star Trek.

Silver_Derstin
12-21-2006, 01:57 PM
Everybody knows that the best way to kill a god is if nobody thinks they exist.

Which is why there are no gods in Star Trek.

Best way remains a .45 GodSlayer long rifle handgun loaded with anti-spirit shells, coated in Ether and blessed by the 12 Elemental lords.

KN
12-21-2006, 02:15 PM
Besides Xenogears, you also pretty much kill god in every Final Fantasy game.

Except FFX-2, in which you kill him by just playing the game.

BetaSword
12-21-2006, 06:12 PM
The guy who played Frasier? Or did you mean grammar?

Yep, Kelsey Grammer does indeed make my eyes bleed.

Just kidding.

In actuality... Damnit! I could've swarn grammar was spelled with an "e"! Argh! I've been foiled by... Things!


Oh. And to kill god, there would have to be god to kill. Hows about dem apples?

Thefremen
12-22-2006, 05:14 AM
I could get arrested for bar brawls, conspiring to discover the secret of the Gods, suppressing violent civil wars, and the list goes on and on and on...


The irony being that slash fiction writers will never get in trouble because it isn't illegal for Shinji to have sex with Cloud.

Thefremen
12-22-2006, 05:15 AM
Can you be charged with deicide?

Yes, in special cases like GW where someone is a living incarnation of God.