Why don't Wii fans want to hear anything bad about the Wii?

[Kittie Rose]

This is getting extremely frustrating:

http://www.wiispace.com/forum/nintendo-wii/1902-love-forum-but.html

This is a prime example. You can do a search for my old posts; nothing was ban worthy.

I'm not looking just to set people against that forum(Though the admin is an idiot), but this is ridiculous. Nobody can say anything about the Wii that isn't entirely positive. Posting on forums that aren't actually directly about the Wii about it doesn't seem to be much better.

Why can't Wii fans accept that some of us love the Wii, but still take serious issue with the graphics and relative pricing? Why do Wii fans feel the need to shove the "If you have a problem, get lost and get a PS3" rubbish down everyone's throats?

I am very tired of this. Wii is like a drug; everyone is so doped up on it they don't realise any of the negative side effects.

[KN]

It's even worse with PS3 fanboys, because there isn't any ****ing logic behind their arguments to begin with.

Read some /v/ posts and cringe.

[Kittie Rose]

Ugh, another forum that's the exact same -

http://www.wiichat.com/nintendo-wii-chat/8792-jagged-edges-wii-games.html

What the hell is wrong with these people!? They seem very young though, about 12-15 maybe.

[Beacon]

You can find forums like that with any fan group. I'm sure I could find a forum that insists on only hearing good things about the PS3 if I wanted to, but I have no more desire to find that than I do to go to one of those Wii-centric fanboy sites.
(For what it's worth, I'm a long time Nintendo fan. I own the wii, but I'll admit there are problems. The PS3 also has problems, and I haven't bought it yet, but I probably will at some point down the line.)

[Thefremen]

So basically you troll wii forums and then bitch and moan when you get banned? What a productive use of time.


This coming from a /b/-tard desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu.

Seems like you are mainly griping with the wii's graphics. Even with 480p that's a ****load of pixels to be doing 4x aa on. Even on ps3 effects will be sacrificed to have no jaggies at 1080p. Yes, the relative cost given the specs is high but Nintendo is a game company, they don't make LCDs and motorcycles and toilets and refridgerators and space shuttles and catapults and queen mary replicas made of spam like Sony and Microsoft.

Besides, the market ultimately dictates price, the PSP dropped and came in a core pack eventually. Speaking of the PSP the wii is about equal in power with the same pricing as the psp bundle pack at launch.

Anyways, why not go to ds forums and complain about the short load times longer battery life and lack of media playback, then go to psp forums and complain about lack of games, lack of new genres, too much media support, etc etc.

Lurk moar before you start trolling here, that's the best advice I can give you. Or, start a pro-religion/anti-religion topic in /ot/.

[KN]

You forgot gun rights!

[steelcobra]

All system-specific sites are full of pissy fanboys who have nothing better to do than defend their favorite company.

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/images/050919.gif

[Ministeve]

Yeah, seriously. The first link may have had some merit, but you were just being an ass in the second one. Thefremen pretty much summed it up.

[Kittie Rose]

Yeah, seriously. The first link may have had some merit, but you were just being an ass in the second one. Thefremen pretty much summed it up.

How was I "being an ass"? I find it interesting that you don't however seem to take issue with people essentially saying people can't have an opposing opinion.

[Garrett]

Yeah, seriously. The first link may have had some merit, but you were just being an ass in the second one. Thefremen pretty much summed it up.

There shall be no "assing" directed at anyone in the forums, Ministeve. Thin ice.

[Thefremen]

How was I "being an ass"? I find it interesting that you don't however seem to take issue with people essentially saying people can't have an opposing opinion.

That's just it, they have every right to say that on a privately owned forum dedicated to stroking reggie en fils. If I went to kkkchat.com and said how Jews are actually not responsible for all the wars, and that Black people are not less than them, they'd ban me and be well within their rights.

Same thing with console fanboys, anti-gamers, etc. If you want a fair minded two sided debate about how much the wii sucks, bring it here.

[Picho]

The wii does not suck.

It is immpossible for it to suck.



Unless there is a vacume remote for it. Then yes, the we would suck. there is a fan in it, and the fan blows. So i guess the wii's fans blow. On a side note i would like to point out the ps3 has a blowing fans, as does the x-box 360.

Gameboy however has no blowing fans. There for, the gameboy does not suck or blow.

[Beacon]

It is immpossible for it to suck.
It would be possible for the Wii to suck, but this would require you opening the case and reversing the spin on the fans. ^_^

[KN]

The Wii is solid, and can only suck if third parties release too many sucky games.

I am very pleased with third party support right now. Red Steel might not be totally awesome, but hey, they tried.

And Rayman is just insanely fun.

[Thefremen]

The Wii is solid, and can only suck if third parties release too many sucky games.

I am very pleased with third party support right now. Red Steel might not be totally awesome, but hey, they tried.

And Rayman is just insanely fun.

Mostly, it needs more desu. This is why they need to release Rozen Maiden the game for wii.

[KN]

There's a Rozen Maiden game for the PS2 or something.

So yeah, moar desu is required.

[Kittie Rose]

That's just it, they have every right to say that on a privately owned forum dedicated to stroking reggie en fils. If I went to kkkchat.com and said how Jews are actually not responsible for all the wars, and that Black people are not less than them, they'd ban me and be well within their rights.

Same thing with console fanboys, anti-gamers, etc. If you want a fair minded two sided debate about how much the wii sucks, bring it here.

No, they CAN do it. That doesn't make it right.

I was never saying the Wii sucked. I was saying that it was overpriced for what it does. There is no reason why criticism should not be allowed.

[Beacon]

No, they CAN do it. That doesn't make it right.

I was never saying the Wii sucked. I was saying that it was overpriced for what it does. There is no reason why criticism should not be allowed.

Thefremen never said they were right. He said they were within their rights. Simply put, if they want a little haven where they don't have to hear anything bad about the Wii, they can.

I'm interested in why you think the Wii is overpriced, though, considering it costs less than half of what the PS3 costs.

[kurisu7885]

Thefremen never said they were right. He said they were within their rights. Simply put, if they want a little haven where they don't have to hear anything bad about the Wii, they can.

I'm interested in why you think the Wii is overpriced, though, considering it costs less than half of what the PS3 costs.

And just a little over half or a quarter of the Xbox 360's price, depending o nthe model.

[Picho]

but is that X-box 360 before or after initial release?

Cause here, the wii is 250. Just a little over the keybord i want. (musical keyboard.)

[kurisu7885]

but is that X-box 360 before or after initial release?

Cause here, the wii is 250. Just a little over the keybord i want. (musical keyboard.)

I'm talkign whe nthe deluxe was 400 and the core was 300.

[Thefremen]

Thefremen never said they were right. He said they were within their rights. Simply put, if they want a little haven where they don't have to hear anything bad about the Wii, they can.

I'm interested in why you think the Wii is overpriced, though, considering it costs less than half of what the PS3 costs.
It costs the same as a psp, at least here in hawaii...a psp with no game btw.

I think she's pissed, as many people are, that Nintendo aren't selling at a loss.

Cry me a ****ing river sweetheart, motorola charges twice as much for phones half as good (razr krzr chocolate etc) but because they look nice, consumers are willing to pay more.

V3i has a 1mp camera and 512mb sdmicro memory card with itunes and ****ty headphones and costs $350 before rebate.

Sony-ericsson 810i has 2mp camera with 128mb memory stick duo card (cingular offers 1gb for $60 with $60 mir) noise reduction headphones and an adaptor which lets you use the mic with your own headphones. Walkman playback software lets you play music constantly (cuts out during phone calls) while itunes only runs when you have itunes open. 810i is $200.

Better camera, better headphones, better adaptor, better music software, better deal on a memory card, but people still buy moto at a higher price because "OMG razor!".

[Picho]

I'm talkign whe nthe deluxe was 400 and the core was 300.
It sounded like you were saying that it costed more then the X-box 360
It costs the same as a psp, at least here in hawaii...a psp with no game btw.

I think she's pissed, as many people are, that Nintendo aren't selling at a loss.

Cry me a ****ing river sweetheart, motorola charges twice as much for phones half as good (razr krzr chocolate etc) but because they look nice, consumers are willing to pay more.

V3i has a 1mp camera and 512mb sdmicro memory card with itunes and ****ty headphones and costs $350 before rebate.

Sony-ericsson 810i has 2mp camera with 128mb memory stick duo card (cingular offers 1gb for $60 with $60 mir) noise reduction headphones and an adaptor which lets you use the mic with your own headphones. Walkman playback software lets you play music constantly (cuts out during phone calls) while itunes only runs when you have itunes open. 810i is $200.

Better camera, better headphones, better adaptor, better music software, better deal on a memory card, but people still buy moto at a higher price because "OMG razor!".

Ready to go to ward theater? bwahahaha!

[kurisu7885]

[QUOTE=Picho;12097]It sounded like you were saying that it costed more then the X-box 360


QUOTE]

Sorry I came off like that. I was meanign ot say the Wii costs half of what the 360 deluxe system is, and at least a quater oo the Xbox 360 core unit.

[Kittie Rose]

Thefremen never said they were right. He said they were within their rights. Simply put, if they want a little haven where they don't have to hear anything bad about the Wii, they can.

I'm interested in why you think the Wii is overpriced, though, considering it costs less than half of what the PS3 costs.

I already knew they were "within their rights". Why, every time, do people feel the need to drill it in, again and again? If you don't think that what they did is right, why should?

Also, the question of whether they SHOULD have that right is also one to be answered. Just because you "Own a server" doesn't mean you should be able to do just about anything with it.

And, see that's the problem. People say "Hey it costs half as much as PS3, it MUST be better value!". That's incredibly bad consumer awareness. The Wii has little more "horsepower" than the Gamecube, a 5 year old console had. The PS3 is top of the range and has Blu-Ray too - whether you want it or not, it's still costly functionality you're getting for relatively cheap(that will also allow the creation of much larger games).

i'd like to hear reasons how the Wii isn't overpriced, considering hardware-wise it's mostly a re-hash of the Gamecube with a different controller.
Actually yes, they do have the right, and there is no debate on that. They own the board, and thus have the right to allow what they choose to allow. Case in point as a moderator I can and do edit people's posts. Usually only to remove offensive material, but occasionally to prove a point. -Toll

[kurisu7885]

I already knew they were "within their rights". Why, every time, do people feel the need to drill it in, again and again? If you don't think that what they did is right, why should?

Also, the question of whether they SHOULD have that right is also one to be answered. Just because you "Own a server" doesn't mean you should be able to do just about anything with it.

And, see that's the problem. People say "Hey it costs half as much as PS3, it MUST be better value!". That's incredibly bad consumer awareness. The Wii has little more "horsepower" than the Gamecube, a 5 year old console had. The PS3 is top of the range and has Blu-Ray too - whether you want it or not, it's still costly functionality you're getting for relatively cheap(that will also allow the creation of much larger games).

i'd like to hear reasons how the Wii isn't overpriced, considering hardware-wise it's mostly a re-hash of the Gamecube with a different controller.
Ok, stop right there. Graphical horsepower doesn't mean **** if games aren't even fun to play to begin with, and two, I personally do not give a **** about a blueray player. My PS2 has a DVD player in it as all do, and I used it all of one time. Lacking on component that lets you do soemthign other than play games doesn't make it worth any less. The Wii has alot of innovative technology that has never been used before, so it's an experimental machine with alot of technology that is seeing a new form of use, like with the DS.

[KN]

You mean like how the PS3 is the PS2 with a different CPU and disc reader?

[kurisu7885]

You mean like how the PS3 is the PS2 with a different CPU and disc reader?

And a hard drive and wirless controller, the latter of whic hwas available already.

[KN]

And a hard drive and wirless controller, the latter of whic hwas available already.

You forget the controller doesn't have rumble anymore!

[Thefremen]

I already knew they were "within their rights". Why, every time, do people feel the need to drill it in, again and again? If you don't think that what they did is right, why should?

Also, the question of whether they SHOULD have that right is also one to be answered. Just because you "Own a server" doesn't mean you should be able to do just about anything with it.

And, see that's the problem. People say "Hey it costs half as much as PS3, it MUST be better value!". That's incredibly bad consumer awareness. The Wii has little more "horsepower" than the Gamecube, a 5 year old console had. The PS3 is top of the range and has Blu-Ray too - whether you want it or not, it's still costly functionality you're getting for relatively cheap(that will also allow the creation of much larger games).

i'd like to hear reasons how the Wii isn't overpriced, considering hardware-wise it's mostly a re-hash of the Gamecube with a different controller.
Actually yes, they do have the right, and there is no debate on that. They own the board, and thus have the right to allow what they choose to allow. Case in point as a moderator I can and do edit people's posts. Usually only to remove offensive material, but occasionally to prove a point. -Toll

I've already addressed your "point" and the fact you repeat it makes me suspect you are indeed a troll or at least have troll like tendancies. The market and consumers determine the value of an item. There's one truely free market out there, and currently consumers there are saying the ps3 is worth ~800 USD, while the Wii is worth ~370 USD.

Consumers really don't care all that much about the horsepower in their consoles, cell phones, etc etc. As I mentioned in a previous post which you have decided not to address, people are willing to pay $200 more for an inferior piece of hardware because of the RAZR name. People are willing to pay $250 for a machine with little more power than a PS2 which retails at $129. They're willing to pay this because of wifi, R&D, fun, innovation.

Nintendo can and will and SHOULD sell the Wii at a profit since Nintendo is a video game company, just like how Sony sells its DVDs at about 9 times what they cost to make. (Sony Tristar is Sony, I know it's crazy to think of how many fingers they have in how many pies) Sony also sells thier HDTVs for much more than competing brands but I don't see you whining about that, and I don't see people who buy them complaining either since they're happy to pay for either percieved value or actual quality.

Last of all, in America (I'm sorry I don't know where you're posting from since you didn't do an intro post) your right to swing your arm ends at my nose, your right to poop anywhere ends at the beginning of my property. You can lay big stinky piles all over LJ and myspace, but at the end of the day Frank and Tom can ban you if they don't like you. Don't like the fact that you have to obey someone's rules when you're in their house? Build your own house.

Here in GP-land, the word "****" isn't allowed. If I want to say **** I can do it in aselabs.com. If you want to live by your own rules Aliester Crowly style, you might have trouble doing that on most pages, but if you want to do anything short of posting cp, check out 4chan.org.

[steelcobra]

Sony also sells thier HDTVs for much more than competing brands but I don't see you whining about that, and I don't see people who buy them complaining either since they're happy to pay for either percieved value or actual quality.


Sony is also well known for the quality they put into producing and shipping defect-free electronics and computers. Which is why the PS1/2 failure problems were particularly stumping.

[Beacon]

i'd like to hear reasons how the Wii isn't overpriced, considering hardware-wise it's mostly a re-hash of the Gamecube with a different controller.
Okay, a quick check on EB Games says that an unused PS2 or GameCube costs you $100. The Wii is roughly twice as powerful as the GameCube (I've heard numbers ranging from 1.5 to 2x, so let's assume 1.75).
1.75 x $100 + $60 (packaged remote and nunchuck) = $235
And that's not even considering the value of a completely new controller style, Virtual Console, and Wii Sports.
Now, I'm not going to say Nintendo is flawless. I find the VC selection is relatively weak so far, and the fact that they haven't finished some of their internet services is irritating me because games coming out right now are having their online multiplayer stripped out.
But considering that I can (once it all comes out) buy the wii, a second controller, Zelda, Metroid, Mario, and Smash Brothers and still have spent less than I would on a PS3, I think the Wii is very fairly priced. I very strongly agree with Nintendo's policy. I don't care about the horsepower as long as it can deliver the games.

[KN]

http://www.hobobucket.com/images/haiotsmall.jpg

All of that was €500. The price of the low-end PS3 which I don't think even went on sale. Thus, it still falls 100 bucks short of a PS3 with no games.

Dayum.

[steelcobra]

plus if the dollar amount's the same in Euro, you're paying a 30% premium over those in the states.

[Thefremen]

Sony is also well known for the quality they put into producing and shipping defect-free electronics and computers. Which is why the PS1/2 failure problems were particularly stumping.

I think they can get away with it since the playstation brand is distanced from Sony. Their explosives work splendidly for example.....


Oh wait, correction, I just found out those were supposed to be laptop batteries.

[steelcobra]

Note that none of them were in their own systems though...

[kurisu7885]

Note that none of them were in their own systems though...

Which shows that if you try to use a non sony product in a sony product, expect them to try to kill you

[Kittie Rose]

Okay, a quick check on EB Games says that an unused PS2 or GameCube costs you $100. The Wii is roughly twice as powerful as the GameCube (I've heard numbers ranging from 1.5 to 2x, so let's assume 1.75).
1.75 x $100 + $60 (packaged remote and nunchuck) = $235
And that's not even considering the value of a completely new controller style, Virtual Console, and Wii Sports.
Now, I'm not going to say Nintendo is flawless. I find the VC selection is relatively weak so far, and the fact that they haven't finished some of their internet services is irritating me because games coming out right now are having their online multiplayer stripped out.
But considering that I can (once it all comes out) buy the wii, a second controller, Zelda, Metroid, Mario, and Smash Brothers and still have spent less than I would on a PS3, I think the Wii is very fairly priced. I very strongly agree with Nintendo's policy. I don't care about the horsepower as long as it can deliver the games.

A gamecube does not cost $100 to make 5 years after it cost $200 and they've had time to optimise even further, and the Wii is most certainly not "twice as powerful" - can you show be ANY game that demonstrates this?

What do you mean the "value" of a completely new controller style? The R&D for the controller still isn't going to be the same as the "special" chips going into 360 and PS3.

Virtual Console isn't "worth" anything. If anything, it's an added cost as Nintendo are pretty much getting money for nothing.

I also like how you pretend the Gamecube controller isn't worth anything, but the "Virtual Console" is.


Graphical horsepower doesn't mean **** if games aren't even fun to play to begin with,

That has absolutely nothing to do with the actual worth of the console. "Arteest" pricing has ****ed us over with games for years, the last thing we need is consoles with "Arteest" pricing.

Graphics do mean quite a bit. They enhance the experience of many games. If you couldn't see anything, there would be gameplay. I hate the way people think it makes them "Less shallow" to say that graphics mean nothing. Games like Oblivion, Shenmue and Far Cry wouldn't have had the same impact, wouldn't have been enjoyable, if it wasn't for the graphics.

Not only that, but "Horsepower" affects other things like number of enemies on screen, AI, destructable environments, etc. Horsepower can directly help the gameplay too.

I personally do not give a **** about a blueray player.

But it's still there and it's still worth something. And games can benefit from the extra storage space for sure.

Last of all, in America (I'm sorry I don't know where you're posting from since you didn't do an intro post) your right to swing your arm ends at my nose, your right to poop anywhere ends at the beginning of my property. You can lay big stinky piles all over LJ and myspace, but at the end of the day Frank and Tom can ban you if they don't like you. Don't like the fact that you have to obey someone's rules when you're in their house? Build your own house.


This sounds great to say I'm sure, but it essentially means that there no safe spaces, no rights on the internet. "Build your own house" isn't practical and you bloody well know it. Also, who tends to feel more at home on a forum, the admin or the members?

And NEVER, EVER use the House analogy EVER. It is the most terrible analogy that's used for nothing but people who defend childish power hungry Forums are nothing like houses. Not in the slightest. Forums aren't even "real" property. You cannot "Own" a gathering of people. You can "own" a server, but then you should still have to accept responsibility for your actions as you still cannot own the community. The community cannot be "replaced", the server can.
Houses and forums are something you can claim to own It is used commonly only because bull**** emotionally weighted arguments as very popular due to it's ease on the teenage horny net geek brain, logic isn't so much.

It is wrong. It is incredibly flawed beyond belief. Just accept at least this.

Property rights should override all other personal rights. It is not practical to "create" your own safe space online. This needs to be rectified somehow; forums just get worse and worse, with more and more incompetent admins and more trolls who slip by because the admins live by the Style over Substance fallacy.

I've already addressed your "point" and the fact you repeat it makes me suspect you are indeed a troll or at least have troll like tendancies. The market and consumers determine the value of an item. There's one truely free market out there, and currently consumers there are saying the ps3 is worth ~800 USD, while the Wii is worth ~370 USD.

That's economics. If I can trick people into buying a pile of crap, and it sells millions, it doesn't make it right, or the best way to go about it.

You seem to come off as very right wing in putting both economics and "property" rights before all else...

Nintendo can and will and SHOULD sell the Wii at a profit since Nintendo is a video game company, just like how Sony sells its DVDs at about 9 times what they cost to make. (Sony Tristar is Sony, I know it's crazy to think of how many fingers they have in how many pies) Sony also sells thier HDTVs for much more than competing brands but I don't see you whining about that, and I don't see people who buy them complaining either since they're happy to pay for either percieved value or actual quality.

I'm not whining about it because people aren't going "MAN THIS HDTV IS THE BEST VALUE EVER". They ARE with the Wii. And yes, I complain about the price of games and DVDs regularly. I do think they should be sold for more than they're physically worth because of the work that goes into them. I don't think consoles should be since the actual "entertainment value" comes from the games first and foremost. You should only be charging for the physical prowess of the Hardware. A console is not a game. They are two seperate entities.

Sony and Microsoft sell their consoles at a loss. They are, technically, better value.

[KN]

Er... hi?

Wasn't this supposed to be a thread about why fanboy forums overreact to ****?

Right now, the only person overreacting is you =/

[Jojo Stix]

This sounds great to say I'm sure, but it essentially means that there no safe spaces, no rights on the internet. "Build your own house" isn't practical and you bloody well know it. Also, who tends to feel more at home on a forum, the admin or the members?

Quick question, have you ever run your own forum or discussion group? I only ask because it sounds like you haven't. I've done mod work in the past for a few ML's, and I know that when we had members sign up, they had to agree to a set of rules we posted. These were enacted to help create a safe community where people did not feel afraid to post.

You do have rights on the internet. You have the right to post whatever you feel like on other's forums. Just remember, the admins have the right to enforce their rules.

Sony and Microsoft sell their consoles at a loss. They are, technically, better value.

@_@ Okay, now you're sounding like a troll. I swear, this is becoming the mantra of Sony Fanbois.

As others have said, just because Sony is losing money on a system does not mean it is the better value. Personally, I'm holding out on a PS3 because it is too expensive for me. I bought a Wii because the $250 price tag and the fact that there were launch title games that I really wanted to paly. I do not look for the fastest, most powerful graphics when I play a game. I look for a decent story and more importantly, the fun factor. Thus, the Wii is a better value in my mind.

[Beacon]

A gamecube does not cost $100 to make 5 years after it cost $200 and they've had time to optimise even further, and the Wii is most certainly not "twice as powerful" - can you show be ANY game that demonstrates this?

What do you mean the "value" of a completely new controller style? The R&D for the controller still isn't going to be the same as the "special" chips going into 360 and PS3.

Virtual Console isn't "worth" anything. If anything, it's an added cost as Nintendo are pretty much getting money for nothing.

I also like how you pretend the Gamecube controller isn't worth anything, but the "Virtual Console" is.
No, the GameCube doesn't cost $100 to make. It sells for $100, though. So does the Playstation 2. This appears to be the accepted value for these systems. And no, I don't know of any games that showcase how much more powerful the Wii is. The games out there aren't coming close to using its full power so far. However, that doesn't mean the power's not there.
As for the "value" of a new controller style... that's worth a lot to me. I don't care how much they spent on R&D, or how much the PS3 chips cost. The Wii brings something new to the table, and that has value. It's the Wii's major selling point! Do you think the Wii would be selling out if all it offered was inferior graphics?
Virtual Console is worth plenty. Again, how much money they spent on it is less important than how much I can get out of it. And don't assume that putting the VC together didn't cost Nintendo anything. They had to build emulators, make deals with numerous other companies, set up the interface, servers, etc. I don't know how much that cost them, but don't pretend this is something they just slapped on.
Yeah, I guess you're right, when I did my little equation, I didn't include the cost of the GameCube controller, although I'm not sure if the system they're selling includes one (one isn't shown in the picture and it never mentions one).

I'm not whining about it because people aren't going "MAN THIS HDTV IS THE BEST VALUE EVER". They ARE with the Wii. And yes, I complain about the price of games and DVDs regularly. I do think they should be sold for more than they're physically worth because of the work that goes into them. I don't think consoles should be since the actual "entertainment value" comes from the games first and foremost. You should only be charging for the physical prowess of the Hardware. A console is not a game. They are two seperate entities.

Sony and Microsoft sell their consoles at a loss. They are, technically, better value.
That depends on your definition of value. Yes, if you buy a PS3, you get $900 worth of equipment for $600. However, I'm more interested in the value of what I take out of the system than what they put in to it.
If person A buys a Wii for $250, and person B buys a PS3 for $600, and they both enjoy the system just as much as the other, who got the better value?
A video game console is worth nothing without its games. They are two entities, but you cannot simply separate them.

[KN]

Let's just focus on answering her question instead of being fanboys, ok?

Let's use an example you can relate to:

Going to fanboy forums and stating something directly opposed to what the majority there thinks is pretty much suicide, and pointless. Much like trying to debating in the HRWiki Forum. The christfans there don't want to debate, they want to see their own opinion repeated over and over and over again.

You're not going to change their opinion, so don't try. If you want to debate, find a place with a serious debate thread regarding the subject (make sure it's not inhabited by 12 year olds).

[Thefremen]

Once Sony sold me a 40gb ide hdd for $150 and I purchased it gladly because they told me that I'd be able to download levels and cars for gt4 with it, and there would be other first party titles supporting it. Next thing I know the ps2 slim comes around and that great value sucks.

Moral of the story: I can sell you $900 worth of spent uranium dust for $600 and it wouldn't be as good a value as $200 worth of sexy fun for $250.

Yeah I do have conservative values about certain things, and liberal values on others. Only politicians have to follow those rules of "if I don't like abortion I have to hate welfare and govt provided health care" etc.

You're getting worked up, you're fighting about values, you sound just like a fundie talking about how your values (better electronics for less=goood) are better than my values (more fun for less money=good).

As a jaded long time gamer, I don't give a crap about better graphics, ps3 looks the same as my pc. I care about what the games are like, and how it brings the species closer to a holodeck. Picard and Data don't use dual shock 2s to interface with holographic images, they touch them directly. Wiimote is a hellofalot closer to vr than sixaxis.

Dennis owns this forum. If he doesn't want people to say that they want to throw all black babies into furnaces then he can do that. If Wii forum owners want to keep trolls like you out, that's fine.

Here's the thing, in those communities, they could easily be overrun by millions of those with your viewpoint if they didn't kick because those forums are magnets for haters and sony fanboys/girls. If we didn't kick Thompson this forum would suck and nobody would be here. I sure as **** wouldn't. They don't want a member who is going to threadcrap constantly and make a "ps3 is a better value" thread every couple of days. We don't want to constantly debate whether or not we're all drug addicted homosexual japanophile furry pedophile nazis so we keep the forum free of people who insist on saying that.

[Kittie Rose]

Virtual Console is worth plenty. Again, how much money they spent on it is less important than how much I can get out of it. And don't assume that putting the VC together didn't cost Nintendo anything. They had to build emulators, make deals with numerous other companies, set up the interface, servers, etc. I

But they're SELLING the games. They're still making a profit. Since the VC service makes no difference unless you PAY for games, it's a moot point.

[Beacon]

But they're SELLING the games. They're still making a profit. Since the VC service makes no difference unless you PAY for games, it's a moot point.
The PS3 and the Wii make no difference unless you pay for the games, so by your logic, they should be free.

[ZippyDSMlee]

Kittie Rose
I was asked to join acouple of PS3 groups on gamespot...anytime I tried to bring up the nuances of the with 360 or the PS3 the tread got locked....they don't want conversation they want mindless drivvail.
BTW don't post in GS/Gfaqs public forum.....its troll hevan...


HOLLY FCK! I jsut screwed up my reply to all ><

someone should disable the repaly button when you are editing a post......

[Sprngpilot]

Forums on the internet have a certain flow, like a river. You can either go with the flow or impede it. Generally people gather on forums because 1) they like talking to other people with similar viewpoints, or 2) they like trashing people with different ideas. Every forum on the internet is like this. It's human nature.

So don't join a forum when you have opposing opinions unless you like people fighting with you. Be prepared when others, especially mods, don't take kindly to your attempts to go against the flow of the forum. If you think the Wii sucks and you don't want conflict, find a forum where people agree. Otherwise you're going to get the same treatment over and over. You can't honestly expect to be welcomed, or even tolerated, at boards where you are going out of your way to argue against the majority.

[Thefremen]

But they're SELLING the games. They're still making a profit. Since the VC service makes no difference unless you PAY for games, it's a moot point.

But it is a feature with added value just like ps3's backwards compatibility!

You seem to have a real problem with paying for people's intellectual property. Don't worry, the virtual console will be hacked and you'll see roms for it on your precious limewire within a few months at the most, along with images of the hottest ps3 games.

[ZippyDSMlee]

This is getting extremely frustrating:

http://www.wiispace.com/forum/nintendo-wii/1902-love-forum-but.html

This is a prime example. You can do a search for my old posts; nothing was ban worthy.

I'm not looking just to set people against that forum(Though the admin is an idiot), but this is ridiculous. Nobody can say anything about the Wii that isn't entirely positive. Posting on forums that aren't actually directly about the Wii about it doesn't seem to be much better.

Why can't Wii fans accept that some of us love the Wii, but still take serious issue with the graphics and relative pricing? Why do Wii fans feel the need to shove the "If you have a problem, get lost and get a PS3" rubbish down everyone's throats?

I am very tired of this. Wii is like a drug; everyone is so doped up on it they don't realise any of the negative side effects.
Ugh, another forum that's the exact same -

http://www.wiichat.com/nintendo-wii-chat/8792-jagged-edges-wii-games.html

What the hell is wrong with these people!? They seem very young though, about 12-15 maybe.

eagles "get over it" would be playing right now...where to start...
frist off your going to get wacked from alot of forums if you do not understand their rules and flow I have many of time,also your are looking for logic and balance in FANBOY ZONE that is like the net only amped by 200X if you do not go with thier flow you will be drowned,dose it make it right no but its a fact of life that will never change.

Unlike the 360 and PS3 Nintendo is no longer worshiping at the feet of the blind graphical goddess they have givein up mindless power for innovation and price the price is just right to unlike the 360 thats a mishmash of stuff that bad a horrid launch and the PS3 that has a luke warm launch and lightly buggy launch the WII has cralwed along well with only a update issues the games of yet have not had any graphic glitchs the system was built around the controllers and the GC not a recreation of the PSX days.
---------------
It's even worse with PS3 fanboys, because there isn't any ****ing logic behind their arguments to begin with.

Read some /v/ posts and cringe.
fanboys burn us soo....
------
You can find forums like that with any fan group. I'm sure I could find a forum that insists on only hearing good things about the PS3 if I wanted to, but I have no more desire to find that than I do to go to one of those Wii-centric fanboy sites.
(For what it's worth, I'm a long time Nintendo fan. I own the wii, but I'll admit there are problems. The PS3 also has problems, and I haven't bought it yet, but I probably will at some point down the line.)
for the price the PS3 should be prefect its far far from it
------------
So basically you troll wii forums and then bitch and moan when you get banned? What a productive use of time.


This coming from a /b/-tard desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu.

Seems like you are mainly griping with the wii's graphics. Even with 480p that's a ****load of pixels to be doing 4x aa on. Even on ps3 effects will be sacrificed to have no jaggies at 1080p. Yes, the relative cost given the specs is high but Nintendo is a game company, they don't make LCDs and motorcycles and toilets and refridgerators and space shuttles and catapults and queen mary replicas made of spam like Sony and Microsoft.

Besides, the market ultimately dictates price, the PSP dropped and came in a core pack eventually. Speaking of the PSP the wii is about equal in power with the same pricing as the psp bundle pack at launch.

Anyways, why not go to ds forums and complain about the short load times longer battery life and lack of media playback, then go to psp forums and complain about lack of games, lack of new genres, too much media support, etc etc.

Lurk moar before you start trolling here, that's the best advice I can give you. Or, start a pro-religion/anti-religion topic in /ot/.
ouch,but you have a point you have to figure out the flow of the forum before bitching.
--------------
How was I "being an ass"? I find it interesting that you don't however seem to take issue with people essentially saying people can't have an opposing opinion.
your an arse for not understand that some forums are one ay and if you splash in their river there gonna kick you out this is a fact of life.

-----------

[ZippyDSMlee]

No, they CAN do it. That doesn't make it right.

I was never saying the Wii sucked. I was saying that it was overpriced for what it does. There is no reason why criticism should not be allowed.

Mmmmmmmm why? it has a network to pay for its a bonified 1.5 system with a completely net control scheme,its already nearly half the price of the others.
-----------
It costs the same as a psp, at least here in hawaii...a psp with no game btw.

I think she's pissed, as many people are, that Nintendo aren't selling at a loss.

Cry me a ****ing river sweetheart, motorola charges twice as much for phones half as good (razr krzr chocolate etc) but because they look nice, consumers are willing to pay more.

V3i has a 1mp camera and 512mb sdmicro memory card with itunes and ****ty headphones and costs $350 before rebate.

Sony-ericsson 810i has 2mp camera with 128mb memory stick duo card (cingular offers 1gb for $60 with $60 mir) noise reduction headphones and an adaptor which lets you use the mic with your own headphones. Walkman playback software lets you play music constantly (cuts out during phone calls) while itunes only runs when you have itunes open. 810i is $200.

Better camera, better headphones, better adaptor, better music software, better deal on a memory card, but people still buy moto at a higher price because "OMG razor!".
No the WII has more power than the PSP better architecture more effects it can do I know you like dropping your pants but saying the WII is as powerful as the PSP is asinine and this is comeing from an ass!

another thing.... WTF yes the horde of zombie gamers give a dam about horsepower,if they gave a dam about the games and play quality there would have been no 3 way split and their would not be another 3way split comeing up...altho I wish MS or sony would quit both have a anti consumer air about them I cant stand....

----------------

[ZippyDSMlee]

i'd like to hear reasons how the Wii isn't overpriced, considering hardware-wise it's mostly a re-hash of the Gamecube with a different controller.
Actually yes, they do have the right, and there is no debate on that. They own the board, and thus have the right to allow what they choose to allow. Case in point as a moderator I can and do edit people's posts. Usually only to remove offensive material, but occasionally to prove a point. -Toll
A gamecube does not cost $100 to make 5 years after it cost $200 and they've had time to optimise even further, and the Wii is most certainly not "twice as powerful" - can you show be ANY game that demonstrates this?
What do you mean the "value" of a completely new controller style? The R&D for the controller still isn't going to be the same as the "special" chips going into 360 and PS3
Virtual Console isn't "worth" anything. If anything, it's an added cost as Nintendo are pretty much getting money for nothing.
I also like how you pretend the Gamecube controller isn't worth anything, but the "Virtual Console" is.
That has absolutely nothing to do with the actual worth of the console. "Arteest" pricing has ****ed us over with games for years, the last thing we need is consoles with "Arteest" pricing.
Graphics do mean quite a bit. They enhance the experience of many games. If you couldn't see anything, there would be gameplay. I hate the way people think it makes them "Less shallow" to say that graphics mean nothing. Games like Oblivion, Shenmue and Far Cry wouldn't have had the same impact, wouldn't have been enjoyable, if it wasn't for the graphics.

Not only that, but "Horsepower" affects other things like number of enemies on screen, AI, destructable environments, etc. Horsepower can directly help the gameplay too.



But it's still there and it's still worth something. And games can benefit from the extra storage space for sure.



This sounds great to say I'm sure, but it essentially means that there no safe spaces, no rights on the internet. "Build your own house" isn't practical and you bloody well know it. Also, who tends to feel more at home on a forum, the admin or the members?

And NEVER, EVER use the House analogy EVER. It is the most terrible analogy that's used for nothing but people who defend childish power hungry Forums are nothing like houses. Not in the slightest. Forums aren't even "real" property. You cannot "Own" a gathering of people. You can "own" a server, but then you should still have to accept responsibility for your actions as you still cannot own the community. The community cannot be "replaced", the server can.
Houses and forums are something you can claim to own It is used commonly only because bull**** emotionally weighted arguments as very popular due to it's ease on the teenage horny net geek brain, logic isn't so much.

It is wrong. It is incredibly flawed beyond belief. Just accept at least this.

Property rights should override all other personal rights. It is not practical to "create" your own safe space online. This needs to be rectified somehow; forums just get worse and worse, with more and more incompetent admins

Sony and Microsoft sell their consoles at a loss. They are, technically, better value.

I been there but frankly complaining about it it endlessly will get you nowhere,look more closely at where the 360 is and what the PS3 is and tell me that the WII is "lost"
please tell me MS has a clue about what tis doing with the 20GB HD and 6GB HD moives you can download...tell me please they knew what they were doing when they launched with a near 20% defect rate pelase tell me sony knows what is is doing trying to release a media center project as a game machine,while BR is nice it will never plug the gaping wound in gameplay that the cult of graphiles poked into it over the years,the more you talk the more the more it seems you only see graphics and not potential or gameplay thus buying the lie the corperate dark gods have put out graphics are everythign gameplay play control what are these thigns you talk of they mean nothing to us now paly our new moive..er game....

Another thing do I think the WII is perfect NO my main complaint is with the way these new systems are you should be able to config/button map your controls and with the new dual shock like controller games would be great to play on it but they completely overlooked and the ability to customize controls,more more devs are using cookie cutter controls and its jsut disgusting with these machines and a few KB on a save you could make great custom control configs.... and waiting on a china outfit to build a device that gives you more control options is lame...but the Max shooter for PS2/Xbox are god sends.

----------------

I've already addressed your "point" and the fact you repeat it makes me suspect you are indeed a troll or at least have troll like tendancies. The market and consumers determine the value of an item. There's one truely free market out there, and currently consumers there are saying the ps3 is worth ~800 USD, while the Wii is worth ~370 USD.

Consumers really don't care all that much about the horsepower in their consoles, cell phones, etc etc. As I mentioned in a previous post which you have decided not to address, people are willing to pay $200 more for an inferior piece of hardware because of the RAZR name. People are willing to pay $250 for a machine with little more power than a PS2 which retails at $129. They're willing to pay this because of wifi, R&D, fun, innovation.

Nintendo can and will and SHOULD sell the Wii at a profit since Nintendo is a video game company, just like how Sony sells its DVDs at about 9 times what they cost to make. (Sony Tristar is Sony, I know it's crazy to think of how many fingers they have in how many pies) Sony also sells thier HDTVs for much more than competing brands but I don't see you whining about that, and I don't see people who buy them complaining either since they're happy to pay for either percieved value or actual quality.

Last of all, in America (I'm sorry I don't know where you're posting from since you didn't do an intro post) your right to swing your arm ends at my nose, your right to poop anywhere ends at the beginning of my property. You can lay big stinky piles all over LJ and myspace, but at the end of the day Frank and Tom can ban you if they don't like you. Don't like the fact that you have to obey someone's rules when you're in their house? Build your own house.

Here in GP-land, the word "****" isn't allowed. If I want to say **** I can do it in aselabs.com. If you want to live by your own rules Aliester Crowly style, you might have trouble doing that on most pages, but if you want to do anything short of posting cp, check out 4chan.org.

........yes they care the more shiny a game the easier it is for the corporates game makers to sale bad games both devs and publishers tend to bent in the direction of power the zombie horde of gamers are as bad gobbleing up games left and right never noticing that play quality has tooken a dive since the gray death(suits) took over heavily in the late 90s...

I need a pick I am that crazy preacher on the conner whining abotu the end of days only...I am bitching about eh death of game quality.......

---------------
Sony is also well known for the quality they put into producing and shipping defect-free electronics and computers. Which is why the PS1/2 failure problems were particularly stumping.
china syndrome it started in the 90s,china make stuff cheap sell in high volume and ave a 20-40% defect rate,fun aint it?

"I am Wacutis of Worg(Walmart),resistance is futile,you will buy our cheap crap to undermine the American worker and further the nations debt so we can sell more cheap crap thats only really 50% of our stock,resistance is futile"
-----------------
http://www.hobobucket.com/images/haiotsmall.jpg

All of that was €500. The price of the low-end PS3 which I don't think even went on sale. Thus, it still falls 100 bucks short of a PS3 with no games.

Dayum.
Don't you get tired of paying double? I mean really...its not like they make the system in the US..... the little regional markups are pathetic as are dvd/game regoining...

--------------
Er... hi?

Wasn't this supposed to be a thread about why fanboy forums overreact to ****?

Right now, the only person overreacting is you =/


this commeing from the master of thread diversion?

[ZippyDSMlee]

Once Sony sold me a 40gb ide hdd for $150 and I purchased it gladly because they told me that I'd be able to download levels and cars for gt4 with it, and there would be other first party titles supporting it. Next thing I know the ps2 slim comes around and that great value sucks.

Moral of the story: I can sell you $900 worth of spent uranium dust for $600 and it wouldn't be as good a value as $200 worth of sexy fun for $250.

Yeah I do have conservative values about certain things, and liberal values on others. Only politicians have to follow those rules of "if I don't like abortion I have to hate welfare and govt provided health care" etc.

You're getting worked up, you're fighting about values, you sound just like a fundie talking about how your values (better electronics for less=goood) are better than my values (more fun for less money=good).

As a jaded long time gamer, I don't give a crap about better graphics, ps3 looks the same as my pc. I care about what the games are like, and how it brings the species closer to a holodeck. Picard and Data don't use dual shock 2s to interface with holographic images, they touch them directly. Wiimote is a hellofalot closer to vr than sixaxis.

Dennis owns this forum. If he doesn't want people to say that they want to throw all black babies into furnaces then he can do that. If Wii forum owners want to keep trolls like you out, that's fine.

Here's the thing, in those communities, they could easily be overrun by millions of those with your viewpoint if they didn't kick because those forums are magnets for haters and sony fanboys/girls. If we didn't kick Thompson this forum would suck and nobody would be here. I sure as **** wouldn't. They don't want a member who is going to threadcrap constantly and make a "ps3 is a better value" thread every couple of days. We don't want to constantly debate whether or not we're all drug addicted homosexual japanophile furry pedophile nazis so we keep the forum free of people who insist on saying that.
whats wrong with being a furry or japanophile ?
:D
I liek cat girls but they are not furries,I wonder what category they fall into.
---------------
Forums on the internet have a certain flow, like a river. You can either go with the flow or impede it. Generally people gather on forums because 1) they like talking to other people with similar viewpoints, or 2) they like trashing people with different ideas. Every forum on the internet is like this. It's human nature.

So don't join a forum when you have opposing opinions unless you like people fighting with you. Be prepared when others, especially mods, don't take kindly to your attempts to go against the flow of the forum. If you think the Wii sucks and you don't want conflict, find a forum where people agree. Otherwise you're going to get the same treatment over and over. You can't honestly expect to be welcomed, or even tolerated, at boards where you are going out of your way to argue against the majority.
*nods nods*
------------
But it is a feature with added value just like ps3's backwards compatibility!

You seem to have a real problem with paying for people's intellectual property. Don't worry, the virtual console will be hacked and you'll see roms for it on your precious limewire within a few months at the most, along with images of the hottest ps3 games.

BWC is a medium to high value ,"pay" for virtual console a low value thing its not as useful as BWC its like live! it since but can be costly.

------------
-----------
No, the GameCube doesn't cost $100 to make. It sells for $100, though. So does the Playstation 2. This appears to be the accepted value for these systems. And no, I don't know of any games that showcase how much more powerful the Wii is. The games out there aren't coming close to using its full power so far. However, that doesn't mean the power's not there.
As for the "value" of a new controller style... that's worth a lot to me. I don't care how much they spent on R&D, or how much the PS3 chips cost. The Wii brings something new to the table, and that has value. It's the Wii's major selling point! Do you think the Wii would be selling out if all it offered was inferior graphics?
Virtual Console is worth plenty. Again, how much money they spent on it is less important than how much I can get out of it. And don't assume that putting the VC together didn't cost Nintendo anything. They had to build emulators, make deals with numerous other companies, set up the interface, servers, etc. I don't know how much that cost them, but don't pretend this is something they just slapped on.
Yeah, I guess you're right, when I did my little equation, I didn't include the cost of the GameCube controller, although I'm not sure if the system they're selling includes one (one isn't shown in the picture and it never mentions one).


That depends on your definition of value. Yes, if you buy a PS3, you get $900 worth of equipment for $600. However, I'm more interested in the value of what I take out of the system than what they put in to it.
If person A buys a Wii for $250, and person B buys a PS3 for $600, and they both enjoy the system just as much as the other, who got the better value?
A video game console is worth nothing without its games. They are two entities, but you cannot simply separate them.

I put this at the end heres my thoughts on the systems

360
System 1.8
overall score 6(launch was a 4)
the main reason all the mismanagement in a year or 2 the system might grow out of the ugly duckling stage.
but still MS needs to do soemthign about the HD ,as for HDVD gaming they dont need it as much as getting their act together and fixing all the bugs and improving the "media" side of it.

PS3=
System 1.9
overall score 4 so far(it would be a 5 if they managed to build soemthign that was really 50% more powerful or more than the 360,instead of build a great game machine they built a media center)
price and power damage it the most while BR is nice its not worth the extra 200, Sony completely messed up released to early to pricey and the lack of games is...jsut.....luke warm leaning to COLD....the fact they didn't have HDMI cables in the 600$ system....sad....

WII 2.0 /overall score 6
there is no doubt in my mind its a 1.5 system on power with hardware and coding tricks maybe can pad it to 1.7 but the WII is not about power its about game play innovation while the vitrual console is nice its not free its akin to LIVE! however instead of paying monthly to pay for their network you will have to pay for the extra online stuff and guess what sony is doing this to the max and is offering game add ons for a premium.
I cant wait till the zombie horde figures out when they start making games in pieces and sale them for 25$ for 2 or 4 parts over the 50$ price of the game...

the WII is not perfect but comparing it to the 360 thats limping along and the PS3 from the 3rd riche of console manufactures I'll take the slow and steady WII however if they gameplay dose not improve then they to fail.....

[ZippyDSMlee]

I had to remove alot from the quotes....

[steelcobra]

But it is a feature with added value just like ps3's backwards compatibility!

You seem to have a real problem with paying for people's intellectual property. Don't worry, the virtual console will be hacked and you'll see roms for it on your precious limewire within a few months at the most, along with images of the hottest ps3 games.

The VC is more of a future-revenue schema than value-added feature. The BC of the PS3 is a value-added feature in which Sony is saying "you can play just about any game for our previous systems free, without any additional cost than what you already paid." VC will have a wider library, for sure, but you have to pay for any title that won't fit in the disc slot.

[kurisu7885]

The VC is more of a future-revenue schema than value-added feature. The BC of the PS3 is a value-added feature in which Sony is saying "you can play just about any game for our previous systems free, without any additional cost than what you already paid." VC will have a wider library, for sure, but you have to pay for any title that won't fit in the disc slot.

Even so, it's like five ten bucks a game, tops.

[steelcobra]

But say you bought the same game 15 years ago for 40. You're paying twice for it either way.

I'm not saying it's not cool, but I'm just trying to clarify the terms.

[Thefremen]

But say you bought the same game 15 years ago for 40. You're paying twice for it either way.

I'm not saying it's not cool, but I'm just trying to clarify the terms.

However, it does emulate turbographix 16 which iirc sold for $200 so right there you're getting more hardware!

But I meant for people who believe that the 11th commandment is thou shalt not pay for intellectual property, it will be value added since their games will be free.

[ZippyDSMlee]

However, it does emulate turbographix 16 which iirc sold for $200 so right there you're getting more hardware!

But I meant for people who believe that the 11th commandment is thou shalt not pay for intellectual property, it will be value added since their games will be free.

so? if it emulated the turbo duo then i could play my TD CD games on it so meh :P

[KN]

Nintendo said they're finally going to do something useful with those star points and they will allow you to convert them to Wii Points. This is why you can link your Wii to your Nintendo VIP membership.

[steelcobra]

From what I've been reading though, MS has a ton planned for it's Live Anywhere service. First, it's now a single gamertag with the Zune service. Meaning shared points. And most likely Vista games will be integrated as well, so that's going to be interesting.

But I meant for people who believe that the 11th commandment is thou shalt not pay for intellectual property, it will be value added since their games will be free.
But, again, they are neither the target market of VC nor the ones that will make it sink or float.

[Thefremen]

Nintendo said they're finally going to do something useful with those star points and they will allow you to convert them to Wii Points. This is why you can link your Wii to your Nintendo VIP membership.

Woah. How do you get star points? Are you actually saying.......free games are freeeeeeeeee?

[Kittie Rose]

@_@ Okay, now you're sounding like a troll.

This annoys me to an EXTREME Degree and I have a great dislike for you as a person for saying this. Why am I a troll? For saying something you don't want to hear? if you had to put up with near delusional praise and unquestioning loyalty you'd be nuts too.

[quote]As others have said, just because Sony is losing money on a system does not mean it is the better value.

The hardware that goes into it, an the performance that it can produce, is quite simply worth far, far more than the Wii's. But of course I'm a troll for pointing out something that anyone with a decent amount of technical knowledge should see.

[Kittie Rose]

I already knew they were "within their rights". Why, every time, do people feel the need to drill it in, again and again? If you don't think that what they did is right, why should?

Also, the question of whether they SHOULD have that right is also one to be answered. Just because you "Own a server" doesn't mean you should be able to do just about anything with it.

And, see that's the problem. People say "Hey it costs half as much as PS3, it MUST be better value!". That's incredibly bad consumer awareness. The Wii has little more "horsepower" than the Gamecube, a 5 year old console had. The PS3 is top of the range and has Blu-Ray too - whether you want it or not, it's still costly functionality you're getting for relatively cheap(that will also allow the creation of much larger games).

i'd like to hear reasons how the Wii isn't overpriced, considering hardware-wise it's mostly a re-hash of the Gamecube with a different controller.
Actually yes, they do have the right, and there is no debate on that. They own the board, and thus have the right to allow what they choose to allow. Case in point as a moderator I can and do edit people's posts. Usually only to remove offensive material, but occasionally to prove a point. -Toll

You have proved a point by using something akin to Appeal to Force; which is a logical fallacy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_force

Of course "Force" has to be altered to mean something different online, but it's the same concept. Your point is quite simply wrong, not because I say so, but because it is logically invalid.

You haven't demonstrated, logically, why there is a reason why they should have that right. Yes, they OWN the server but when you work with a random grouping of people it's a different matter. Again, you cannot "Own" grouping of people. You are merely pointing out concepts without defending them, without saying why they should be true. Since the vast majority of people are raised on these concepts, nobody questions them. That does not mean you get a free pass to argue on their behalf solely through assertive statements.

There is absolutely debate on that. There is absolutely debate on everything. Nothing is more illogical than saying "There is no debate on that" when there is no clear reason why your statements are unquestionable. There are some things which indeed are pretty clearly defined as true or false and debating would be a waste of time, but that's only because at some point, they HAVE been debated to death. Then "There's no debating it" would apply. This has hardly been debated at all.

You have used the ability to do so as an example as how it is right to do so. This is quite simply entirely wrong, please accept this.

[kurisu7885]

The hardware that goes into it, an the performance that it can produce, is quite simply worth far, far more than the Wii's. But of course I'm a troll for pointing out something that anyone with a decent amount of technical knowledge should see.

So? I haven't seen enough games for the PS3 that I want to play that would justify a 500 dollar price tag. MGS4 and Devil May Cry 4, that's about it. Not worth it for just two games.

[Dagrak]

[QUOTE=Kittie Rose;12932]

So? I haven't seen enough games for the PS3 that I want to play that would justify a 500 dollar price tag. MGS4 and Devil May Cry 4, that's about it. Not worth it for just two games.

Personally I feel the same about the Wii, sure its a nice controller but the only game I want is Zelda and I can get that on my Gamecube!

[kurisu7885]

Personally I feel the same about the Wii, sure its a nice controller but the only game I want is Zelda and I can get that on my Gamecube!

And that's perfectly fine in my opinion. Don't get it now, get it when you feel the cost is justified by games you actually want to play, more than just one or two. Like with the PS2, getting one later was smarter as it had more games, same for Xbox and Gamecube. And a lower price is a nice bonus.

[Dagrak]

And that's perfectly fine in my opinion. Don't get it now, get it when you feel the cost is justified by games you actually want to play, more than just one or two. Like with the PS2, getting one later was smarter as it had more games, same for Xbox and Gamecube. And a lower price is a nice bonus.

Aye, thats my logic. I got my 360 when it came out so I could play Oblivion (didn't think my PC could run it) but it is kind of sitting there at the moment...it'll get more use after Xmas I should think. I like the Wii concept but theres just nothing I want yet and knowing how the UK market of the Gamecube turned out I'm betting there will be about 6 games I want before Nintendo forgets we exist again!

[ZippyDSMlee]

[QUOTE=Jojo Stix;12349]
@_@ Okay, now you're sounding like a troll.




The hardware that goes into it, an the performance that it can produce, is quite simply worth far, far more than the Wii's. But of course I'm a troll for pointing out something that anyone with a decent amount of technical knowledge should see.

so you are saying the game control the wii offers is nothing compared to the might of the PC wanna be PS3?
sorry but at least good PC games get patched it the frist 2 months when glitches crop up,the graphical glitches in res:fom are pittaful,the WII offers are at least is trying to offer a 180 from the graphics is god mandate gamedom has fell into and cant seem to get out of.


Kittie Rose
they can becue they can like the kings of old and btiching abotu it will only lead to annoy others.


BTW arguing the inarguable is the first sign of a troll,just so you don't know.


Dagrak
meh 600 in comps parts would go further than 600 in 360 crap...currently....

[KN]

Fun fact: The PS2 continues to outsell it's bigger brother in Japan. And not by just a tiny bit either.

[ZippyDSMlee]

Fun fact: The PS2 continues to outsell it's bigger brother in Japan. And not by just a tiny bit either.

could it have to do with being 3-5 times the price maybe?

I am about read to sell my PS2 and get another one its annoying me to no end that ZOE 1 no save glitch is rather annoying.

[Thefremen]

Aye, thats my logic. I got my 360 when it came out so I could play Oblivion (didn't think my PC could run it) but it is kind of sitting there at the moment...it'll get more use after Xmas I should think. I like the Wii concept but theres just nothing I want yet and knowing how the UK market of the Gamecube turned out I'm betting there will be about 6 games I want before Nintendo forgets we exist again!

Exactly. A $6,000 computer that's worth $9,000 doesn't have much value if you play minesweeper on it and nothing else.

I want to play wii sports and turbographix 16 games and sega games and cooking mama and trauma center and hell even exite truck. I also want to play gears of war (maybe) and halo 3 (for shizzle, I loved halo 1&2). I don't care about resistance and although I know it's heresy, I'm not hyped on mgs4. I liked the other games but I just don't think I can do another one.

Oh, and ps2 outsold ps3, even in japan where old console is oooooooooooold. They make a profit on em ya know.

Oh, and you're so right about mods banning people who disrupt the community. That's why 7chan and 12chan exist. So make your version of 12chan were you can talk smack about wii all day.

[KN]

I wonder where the hell 12chan's server is if they avoided getting v& for this long

[Ohma]

The hardware that goes into it, an the performance that it can produce, is quite simply worth far, far more than the Wii's. But of course I'm a troll for pointing out something that anyone with a decent amount of technical knowledge should see.

Yes ooma, however there is no reason to buy a specific console system just because it has better *hardware* than others. Because, unless that system plays *every* game out there, you aren't going to be able to take advantage of that; after all, you can't just put say...Chibi-Robo, in a PS3 and suddenly see super high-res textures and experience super fast load times.

So unless you really want to play one of the four games that came out for the PS3 or Wii already-or you don't have a PS2 or Gamecube and for some reason can't spend less than $200 to $600 on a game console...OR you want to download old Nintendo/Sega games without using a PC emulator-there's no reason to by either yet, even if one has semi-1337 hardware.

[Thefremen]

Yes ooma, however there is no reason to buy a specific console system just because it has better *hardware* than others. Because, unless that system plays *every* game out there, you aren't going to be able to take advantage of that; after all, you can't just put say...Chibi-Robo, in a PS3 and suddenly see super high-res textures and experience super fast load times.

So unless you really want to play one of the four games that came out for the PS3 or Wii already-or you don't have a PS2 or Gamecube and for some reason can't spend less than $200 to $600 on a game console...OR you want to download old Nintendo/Sega games without using a PC emulator-there's no reason to by either yet, even if one has semi-1337 hardware.

Which is why going to wii-centric forums and complaining about jaggies is not defensable with "omg using force to prove point! Nazis! Omg I Godwin'd....". Certain games are for certain systems, therein the value lies. PSP may crush ds with its mighty boots but FF3, Mario Kart, tetris ds, meteos, yoshi's island deux and animal crossing.

So anyways, kicking/banning someone from a wii forum for dissing on the wii doesn't make them right, nor does it make you right. It means they don't want to deal with such debates in their community. It's like the thread crapping trolls in myspace who go to every mother-centric group and start flamebait about circumcision. Or furfags in 4chan bitching about people not being cool about their sexual perversion.

This forum won't ban for opinions, but how you express them is a wholly different matter. It's ok to say "jack thompson is ignorant and his arguements don't stand up to scrutiny" but not so much to say "I want to murder that sonofabitch".

Like you said, forums are communities made of people, and on nationofzionforum.com they don't want KKK-tards coming on there and making threads using reasonable logical points to say the holocaust didn't happen, and they are ok to ban such people, after all, they always say the same thing and always disrupt the community. They could bother to prove the truth but does it matter? They'll never sway the opposition.

A ps3 fan in a wii forum is as out of place as a neo nazi in a judaism discussion group.

[Kittie Rose]

Yes ooma, however there is no reason to buy a specific console system just because it has better *hardware* than others.

Which is exactly why I bought the Wii over the others - it had a much better line up of games, innovative controls, some nice quriky features etc. It still doesn't change that it's overpriced for what it is though, esepcially in Europe.

For example - if you buy a kid a small set of action figures for $25, and it provides them with immense happiness and fun for years, would it be right then for the company to decide "Look at the sheer play vlaue these toys have! We must charge $100 now!"? Just because something "provides happiness" doesn't mean it's worth money. Hugs make me happy but I don't pay for them. You're meant to be paying for actual resources and time and effort, not imaginary aspects. This is exactly what I mean by "arteest" pricing.

[KN]

Which is exactly why I bought the Wii over the others - it had a much better line up of games, innovative controls, some nice quriky features etc. It still doesn't change that it's overpriced for what it is though, esepcially in Europe.

For example - if you buy a kid a small set of action figures for $25, and it provides them with immense happiness and fun for years, would it be right then for the company to decide "Look at the sheer play vlaue these toys have! We must charge $100 now!"? Just because something "provides happiness" doesn't mean it's worth money. Hugs make me happy but I don't pay for them. You're meant to be paying for actual resources and time and effort, not imaginary aspects. This is exactly what I mean by "arteest" pricing.

Oooh, so that explains why Sony won't drop the price of the PSP, despite very little fun being derived of it.

[steelcobra]

I think the case with PSP is that Sony is still believing that they've made a great system and that people love it. Despite the fact that no one's making movies for it anymore and that the only titles that anyone wants for it start with "Metal Gear".

[KN]

I think the case with PSP is that Sony is still believing that they've made a great system and that people love it. Despite the fact that no one's making movies for it anymore and that the only titles that anyone wants for it start with "Metal Gear".

I want to force my mind to not apply that sentence to the PS3. But it really wants to :(

[steelcobra]

Two words: Ratchet & Clank.

The only thing Sony needs to do is fix their supply problem, which wasn't a big deal when they had over a year before Xbox & Cube.

[Thefremen]

Two words: Ratchet & Clank.

The only thing Sony needs to do is fix their supply problem, which wasn't a big deal when they had over a year before Xbox & Cube.

Also, Jak and Daxter.

EU prices v. Mexico Prices= EU is lucky (ps3 and wii wise)

[steelcobra]

well, at exchange rates as they are now, EU is paying 30% more than those in the states for items with the same number value.

[ZippyDSMlee]

Which is exactly why I bought the Wii over the others - it had a much better line up of games, innovative controls, some nice quriky features etc. It still doesn't change that it's overpriced for what it is though, esepcially in Europe.

For example - if you buy a kid a small set of action figures for $25, and it provides them with immense happiness and fun for years, would it be right then for the company to decide "Look at the sheer play vlaue these toys have! We must charge $100 now!"? Just because something "provides happiness" doesn't mean it's worth money. Hugs make me happy but I don't pay for them. You're meant to be paying for actual resources and time and effort, not imaginary aspects. This is exactly what I mean by "arteest" pricing.

*falls out of chair*
look at the the PSP and the PS3 and tell me the WII is overpriced?

[KN]

If you thought it was overpriced, you should've waited untill March when the price drops to 200.

[ZippyDSMlee]

If you thought it was overpriced, you should've waited untill March when the price drops to 200.

I dont think it will get a price drop till next Xmas.

[Beacon]

Which is exactly why I bought the Wii over the others - it had a much better line up of games, innovative controls, some nice quriky features etc. It still doesn't change that it's overpriced for what it is though, esepcially in Europe.

For example - if you buy a kid a small set of action figures for $25, and it provides them with immense happiness and fun for years, would it be right then for the company to decide "Look at the sheer play vlaue these toys have! We must charge $100 now!"? Just because something "provides happiness" doesn't mean it's worth money. Hugs make me happy but I don't pay for them. You're meant to be paying for actual resources and time and effort, not imaginary aspects. This is exactly what I mean by "arteest" pricing.
What the market will bear. If you had a small set of action figures that people were willing to pay $100 for, you could charge $100 for them. But if they'd rather just get the $25 set, you'll go out of business. Nintendo thinks that people are willing to pay $250 for their system. Clearly they're right. This isn't an immoral thing. It's just basic commerce.

[ZippyDSMlee]

What the market will bear. If you had a small set of action figures that people were willing to pay $100 for, you could charge $100 for them. But if they'd rather just get the $25 set, you'll go out of business. Nintendo thinks that people are willing to pay $250 for their system. Clearly they're right. This isn't an immoral thing. It's just basic commerce.

Heres a question I want to put to you and the others with functioning frontal lobes ,will sony lower the PS3 by 50-150 in the next few months,or will they do what they always do and ignore it all untill the last possible second?

[steelcobra]

More likely they'll wait two years for a minimal market saturation of the hardcores, then drop the price that holiday season, well after fixing the production problems.

[ZippyDSMlee]

More likely they'll wait two years for a minimal market saturation of the hardcores, then drop the price that holiday season, well after fixing the production problems.

sounds like it at at max a drop of 100 to boot...phef.....

[Hank the Tank]

Why don't Wii fans want to hear anything bad about the Wii?

I don't know.

Maybe because they're FANS of the Wii?

Answered your own freaking question.

[Jojo Stix]

This annoys me to an EXTREME Degree and I have a great dislike for you as a person for saying this. Why am I a troll? For saying something you don't want to hear? if you had to put up with near delusional praise and unquestioning loyalty you'd be nuts too.

I do apoligize for offending you. Calling you a troll was out of line, and I'm sorry.

You are right, it is something I did not want to hear. Why? Because I've heard it from every single person who blindly praises Sony. Yes, the technical specs are far better on a PS3 then the Wii. Yes, I know the tehnical specs of the Wii are a little better then the GameCube. However, I do find the innovation factor of the Wiimote far more interesting then the Sixaxis controller.

For me, as a consumer, I'm not looking to see if a company is losing money on their product, I'm looking for something that I will use and have fun with.

Case in point, I own both a Nintendo DS and PSP. Both were bought at launch. My DS gets a workout between Elite Beat Agents, Brain Age, Mario Kart DS and the occasional game of Nintendogs. My PSP, well, it makes a nice paperweight. ^^; I haven't been able to find any games that can keep my interest for long. Sure, the technical specs are impressive, but the fun factor just isn't there for me.

[Silver_Derstin]

I do apoligize for offending you. Calling you a troll was out of line, and I'm sorry.



Like they say: A rose by any other name is still a rose.

[ZippyDSMlee]

Like they say: A rose by any other name is still a rose.

meh I don't think shes a troll,more like she posts unwisely,I do that alot but then I am also a net ogre so what do I know >>

[Kittie Rose]

Like they say: A rose by any other name

pricks you with it's thorns just the same...

[Silver_Derstin]

pricks you with it's thorns just the same...

Which is why people wear gloves when dealing with roses. Or breed the kinds with no thorns. Or just kills them all with herbicide.

[Kittie Rose]

But a rose without thorns is like a naughty girl without the naughty...

[ZippyDSMlee]

But a rose without thorns is like a naughty girl without the naughty...
"wets self"
I can so here the deep voice from dungeon keeper or Fable saying that....it thrills me so 0-o

[Silver_Derstin]

But a rose without thorns is like a naughty girl without the naughty...

Nope, it's a nice work of genetic engineering and careful planning. A wonder of science and human skill.

/chants
HUMANITY! HUMANITY! HUMANITY!
WE'RE THE BEST!
HUMANITY! HUMANITY! HUMANITY!

Take that mother-nature!

[Kharne]

Like they say: A rose by any other name is still a rose.

So... What if we called it ****flower?

[Silver_Derstin]

So... What if we called it ****flower?

First, we'd all have to agree to call it ****flower. Then we'd have to agree that ****flower, in english, is the same thing as "Rose" in French. It'd be a lot of work...

[KN]

First, we'd all have to agree to call it ****flower. Then we'd have to agree that ****flower, in english, is the same thing as "Rose" in French. It'd be a lot of work...

Then we must get to work. NAO!

[Silver_Derstin]

Then we must get to work. NAO!

I've contacted the OED already, but they want to know if it's a specific type of rose or all roses that are called ****flowers.

[Tollwutig]

You have proved a point by using something akin to Appeal to Force; which is a logical fallacy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_force

Of course "Force" has to be altered to mean something different online, but it's the same concept. Your point is quite simply wrong, not because I say so, but because it is logically invalid.

You haven't demonstrated, logically, why there is a reason why they should have that right. Yes, they OWN the server but when you work with a random grouping of people it's a different matter. Again, you cannot "Own" grouping of people. You are merely pointing out concepts without defending them, without saying why they should be true. Since the vast majority of people are raised on these concepts, nobody questions them. That does not mean you get a free pass to argue on their behalf solely through assertive statements.

There is absolutely debate on that. There is absolutely debate on everything. Nothing is more illogical than saying "There is no debate on that" when there is no clear reason why your statements are unquestionable. There are some things which indeed are pretty clearly defined as true or false and debating would be a waste of time, but that's only because at some point, they HAVE been debated to death. Then "There's no debating it" would apply. This has hardly been debated at all.

You have used the ability to do so as an example as how it is right to do so. This is quite simply entirely wrong, please accept this.

NO there is no debate on who controls speech on an Internet forum. The owner does hands down, and generally empowers Mods to enforce those views. Case in point I could in fact list you with Dennis and put you on a 3 day temp ban for trolling. I won't because the purpose of Gamepolitics is to encourage debate. We allow a lot of speech here, and there are only a few reasons Mods use their ban powers. If you were to start verbally assaulting other users, despite that it is speech you would be banned.
If owners of forums do not wish bad things about the Wii posted that is their choice, and going there is going there to complain about the Wii is going to get you banned. It's their choice, they own the forum.

There is no free speech on the Internet, as it is NOT a public institution. The hardware is all privately owned, thus any data held on that hardware is the sole property of the owner. If the owner chooses not to let you post something they are against they have every legal right to delete it and ban you.

Get used to it and quit complaining.

I closed the thread to prove my point. On an Internet Forum, the owners and Mods do have the power to control speech.