Violence desensitization- discuss

[V-22 Osprey]

Personally, I'm not even going into the arguments about how video games or movies desensitize people to violence. I just want to talk about my experiences. Be warned that I'm going to be a little graphic here.

I play violent video games all the time, I like gory horror movies, I saw Die Hard With A Vengeance when I was nine (ok, ok, so my dad covered my eyes at some parts :) )... by all rights, I should one extremely desensitized individual, right? So what would people like Mr. Thompson and Lt. Colonel Grossman say about my response to the real-life carnage of the CBS program 9/11 a few years back?

The screams of two people burning to death set my nerves completely on edge, despite the legions of people I've shot, crushed, blown up, burnt to a crisp or otherwise disposed of in all the murder-simulators I own, but what really got to me was later in the program when you could hear the sound of human bodies shattering after falling from the tower... it was the most disturbing thing I've heard in my life. I felt my heart rate shoot way up and I felt very nauseated. I mean, I don't think anything in a video game could possibly prepare anyone for that sound. You're telling me that the almost-comical squishy sound in games like Half-Life when people fall from high places can possibly compare to the real life cacophony of what sounded like every single bone in a body breaking? Please.

Another case...

Back in July, I had just seen Miami Vice a few a hours before (a fairly violent movie, I must say), and was riding in my dad's car to pick up my brother when sudddenly, out of the night - Kamikaze Cat From Beyond! It did not end well for the KCFB. I got pretty queasy. Again, why didn't the violence from the movie desensitize me? There's a part in the movie where someone gets flattened by an 18-wheeler and you see a long smear of blood on the highway. We didn't even see any blood when the very depressed creature went under the wheels. Why was I bothered by seeing a little thing just vanish from view?

You know, maybe I should sue the makers of violent video games and movies. Their gory, ultra-violent products have failed to desenstive me and shield me to real world violence and have caused me emotional distress and pain and suffering when watching documenteries, suicidal cats, or the blood when I accidently cut my chin while shaving two weeks ago (I swear, there were like three drops of blood- I almost passed out).

So, am I just a person who's sensitive to real world violence, or is the "Violent video games desensitize people to real world violence" argument just pure bunk?


By the way, I hope this post doesn't make me come off as a Brendan Fraser In Bedazzled-sized sissy who cries at sunsets and plays odes to dolphins on guitar... my family is currently waging a war on mice, and I feel like bursting into evil laughter every time we nail one of the little suckers with a mousetrap.

Oh, and a note on KCFB...we barely missed another one this month. Geez, what do they do, plan out their attacks in advance? During the whole drive home I was paranoid that it was circling around to the roads near our house for another attempt :eek: .

[Grahamr]

Game violence desenitizes you to Game violence.

Real life violence desensitizes you to Real life violence.

Someone could be a consistent Mortal combat player, and still be nauseated by seeing roadkill.

That's my two cents.

[Demontestament]

I myself can say I am desenitized to the extreme, yeah I play video games. But you be supprised how many of them are M rated, maybe 10% at the most of my games carry an M rating. Yet I can sit there and watch someone leap infront of a train and not a much wince when they get hit(seen it in person). I laugh anytime I see a car chase that ends with the suspect getting out of their car and pulling a gun on a dozen or so armed cops and promptly get turned into swiss cheese. Do I blame it on games? No not really, I just don't care enough to feel for these people. In all honesty I find people like the two examples above stupid and cowardly and I have no respect for stupidity or cowards. You pull a gun on a cop you deserve to get what you get. Jump infront of the train, the world is better off without you. Am I sick because of this? Maybe, who knows why I don't feel remorse when I see people harmed because of their own actions.

I was shown pictures of a crime scene where a guys head had been blown off with a shotgun(sociology) and people around me were going pale, some could handle them but on girl actually threw up. When the pic was passed around the teachers told us the man had run at his killer who was armed with the shotgun, and then asked if we had any thoughts. The guy was a dick and liked to call on me alot, well he called on me and all I said was "He should of ducked" he then said that I was a main downfall in society right now. A person who has no remorse for others well being, someone who could walk up and shoot you where you stand without a second thought. I laughed and called him an idiot and told him that just because I don't care about the headless moron didn't mean I was going to kill someone, I know how to use a gun yes, but no way would I just turn it on another unless it was self defense.

[ZippyDSMlee]

I myself can say I am desenitized to the extreme, yeah I play video games. But you be supprised how many of them are M rated, maybe 10% at the most of my games carry an M rating. Yet I can sit there and watch someone leap infront of a train and not a much wince when they get hit(seen it in person). I laugh anytime I see a car chase that ends with the suspect getting out of their car and pulling a gun on a dozen or so armed cops and promptly get turned into swiss cheese. Do I blame it on games? No not really, I just don't care enough to feel for these people. In all honesty I find people like the two examples above stupid and cowardly and I have no respect for stupidity or cowards. You pull a gun on a cop you deserve to get what you get. Jump infront of the train, the world is better off without you. Am I sick because of this? Maybe, who knows why I don't feel remorse when I see people harmed because of their own actions.

I was shown pictures of a crime scene where a guys head had been blown off with a shotgun(sociology) and people around me were going pale, some could handle them but on girl actually threw up. When the pic was passed around the teachers told us the man had run at his killer who was armed with the shotgun, and then asked if we had any thoughts. The guy was a dick and liked to call on me alot, well he called on me and all I said was "He should of ducked" he then said that I was a main downfall in society right now. A person who has no remorse for others well being, someone who could walk up and shoot you where you stand without a second thought. I laughed and called him an idiot and told him that just because I don't care about the headless moron didn't mean I was going to kill someone, I know how to use a gun yes, but no way would I just turn it on another unless it was self defense.


I think and feel it has more to do with getting use to feelings and no longer being shocked over the littlest things than ture desensitized.
Like any media you read alot you understand things and mature some in feelings and understand but never forget each persons uniquenesses changes the arate at whitch they learn and grow.


And some people are hard asses naturally stern or smug or whatever.

BTW Demontestament I see you as a hard nose realist you care but don't give a damn at the same time ,keep on being you and sqaushing stupidity where it finds you ^^

edit
I want to add I see the human body as a animal body thus see in a scientific way meat flesh bones veins ect,ect,ect.

[V-22 Osprey]

I felt angry when I saw a suicide-by-cop on Police Videos. I think taking all your pyschological baggage and dumping them onto a bunch of police officers is a pretty crummy thing to do.

Demontestament, I also see you as a bit of a realist... but first, please tell me you don't go around with a creepy Christian-Bale-In-American-Psycho smile or give your friends long speeches on Huey Lewis and the News. :D

[Demontestament]

I felt angry when I saw a suicide-by-cop on Police Videos. I think taking all your pyschological baggage and dumping them onto a bunch of police officers is a pretty crummy thing to do.

Demontestament, I also see you as a bit of a realist... but first, please tell me you don't go around with a creepy Christian-Bale-In-American-Psycho smile or give your friends long speeches on Huey Lewis and the News. :D

Well you don't have to worry about the Huey Lewis and the News thing, if I talked about them I would shoot myself. But I do tend to get the creepy psycho smile sometimes, though every girl who has seen it said it was hot as well.

[Dagrak]

Well by all JT/anti gamer logic I should be quite the violent individual. I play very violent games (the ones where you kill people rather then beat them up), am fairly anti-social and I can use and have access to firearms. So technically I should be utterly desensitized to violence. I would say I am to most things, particuarly games however I did nearly throw up at the eye scene in Hostel. I can't really comment on how I view real world violence because I have only ever seen the real stuff on TV and whilst it may be actual footage it doesn't register as such in my head. That could be an argument for desensitizing but I don't think so, I think it just means that I only class the things around me as trully real. I think its fairly obvious that I am opposed to real world violence what with my recent arguments and all, so I think thats one black mark against the anti-gaming agenda. That might simply be because I've always played as a villain or assassin, never really as a random thug who just enjoys the suffering, my characters are either more Bond villainy and over the top or just efficient. I always kill my digital victims quickly, its very very rare that I let them suffer...though of course digital suffering doesn't really count.

Of course part of the anti-game argument is that guns teach you to shoot better, well I can tell you that is utter rubbish! I proudly admit to only being able to shoot the clay pidgeon when it has landed!

[ZippyDSMlee]

Well by all JT/anti gamer logic I should be quite the violent individual. I play very violent games (the ones where you kill people rather then beat them up), am fairly anti-social and I can use and have access to firearms. So technically I should be utterly desensitized to violence. I would say I am to most things, particuarly games however I did nearly throw up at the eye scene in Hostel. I can't really comment on how I view real world violence because I have only ever seen the real stuff on TV and whilst it may be actual footage it doesn't register as such in my head. That could be an argument for desensitizing but I don't think so, I think it just means that I only class the things around me as trully real. I think its fairly obvious that I am opposed to real world violence so I think thats one black mark against the anti-gaming agenda but that might simply be because I've always played as a villain or assassin, never really as a random thug who just enjoys the suffering. I always kill my digital victims quickly, its very very rare that I let them suffer...though of course digital suffering doesn't really count.

Of course part of the anti-game argument is that guns teach you to shoot better, well I can tell you that is utter rubbish! I proudly admit to only being able to shoot the clay pidgeon when it has landed!

I dunno I take mouse aiming into account and it gives you like a 15-25% on aim but AIM ALONE I have a BB air pistol ,if I never played FPSs I would not have a basic understanding of aiming,however a gun is more heavy add kick back its a whole other device basic aiming is like 20-40% to hit add 15-25% on to that its still not going to make you useful with a gun,practice at a range or in your back yard will tho,with all these gamers gone rageing cases they have had some form of gun training above click and shoot from paint ball to joining a range.

In the end its more hand eye skill than point and click skill.and gamers genrealy have better hand eye skill....

[Dagrak]

I dunno I take mouse aiming into account and it gives you like a 15-25% on aim but AIM ALONE I have a BB air pistol ,if I never played FPSs I would not have a basic understanding of aiming,however a gun is more heavy add kick back its a whole other device basic aiming is like 20-40% to hit add 15-25% on to that its still not going to make you useful with a gun,practice at a range or in your back yard will tho,with all these gamers gone rageing cases they have had some form of gun training above click and shoot from paint ball to joining a range.

In the end its more hand eye skill than point and click skill.and gamers genrealy have better hand eye skill....

True, but it definitely does not give you an edge over actually practicing with a gun. A mouse isn't heavy for a start, nor does it leave a huge purple bruise on your shoulder for a whole week after firing...not that I was ever that incompetant...heh heh...

On the other hand I think it might indicate faster reflexes but thats just a guess. I think even if you'd never played a game in your life the adrenaline running through you if you had gone awol would be significant enough to keep you alert to your surroundings.

[Beacon]

Since the subject of training has come up, let's assume for a moment that video games are all you need to become an expert at all forms of fire arms.
So what?
Bringing up the idea of "training" on video games is suggesting that knowledge itself can be made illegal. A kid knowing how to shoot a gun isn't a crime (in fact, if you have guns in the house, teaching the kid how to use them is good parenting). To suggest that it is would mean that you'd have to go after any other source a kid might have to learn gun use, such as B.B. guns, firing ranges (can a parent bring their kid there? I'm really not sure.). Hell, you could argue that NERF shouldn't be allowed. That's irrelevent, though, because the idea that knowledge itself should be contained is so incredibly against both the First Ammendment and the United States' general mentality.

[ZippyDSMlee]

Since the subject of training has come up, let's assume for a moment that video games are all you need to become an expert at all forms of fire arms.
So what?
Bringing up the idea of "training" on video games is suggesting that knowledge itself can be made illegal. A kid knowing how to shoot a gun isn't a crime (in fact, if you have guns in the house, teaching the kid how to use them is good parenting). To suggest that it is would mean that you'd have to go after any other source a kid might have to learn gun use, such as B.B. guns, firing ranges (can a parent bring their kid there? I'm really not sure.). Hell, you could argue that NERF shouldn't be allowed. That's irrelevent, though, because the idea that knowledge itself should be contained is so incredibly against both the First Ammendment and the United States' general mentality.

Have you forgot there more than happy to burn the constenutin to protect childeren!

[Brokenscope]

I saw Hannibal and starship troopers without flinching. Not my style of movie, not something I will watch again. Saving Private Ryan Is very hard for me to watch. Realistic violence vs unrealistic violence.

[Demontestament]

I saw Hannibal and starship troopers without flinching. Not my style of movie, not something I will watch again. Saving Private Ryan Is very hard for me to watch. Realistic violence vs unrealistic violence.

I watched saving private ryan while eating a full dinner one night with my family. My brother and I were the only ones who didn't flinch or lose our appitites :D.

[Dagrak]

I watched saving private ryan while eating a full dinner one night with my family. My brother and I were the only ones who didn't flinch or lose our appitites :D.

I remember being bored watching that...Hostel on the other hand, with the eye scene...bleurrgh! Gore I can cope with, pus and vomit...no thanks!

[V-22 Osprey]

Hey, my thread's back from the dead. I haven't seen Hostel- what's so bad about the eye scene? I'm normally pretty quesy when it comes to movies that inflict horrendous eye injuries, unless they're done pretty quickly (Sin City, for instance).

[Dagrak]

Hey, my thread's back from the dead. I haven't seen Hostel- what's so bad about the eye scene? I'm normally pretty quesy when it comes to movies that inflict horrendous eye injuries, unless they're done pretty quickly (Sin City, for instance).

Well in fear of ruining it for others I'm going to put a spoiler warning


***HOSTEL FILM SPOILER LOOK AWAY IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW!***

Basically during one of the torture scenes a female prisoner has her eye pulled out of its socket. The main character then has to cut the eye stem as there is no way of pushing it back in (face too badly damaged). When he does this a nice stream of yellowish pus gushes out of the wound...its quite revolting.

***SPOILER ENDS***

However the film is utter crap so I wouldn't recommend actualy watching it.

[ZippyDSMlee]

Well in fear of ruining it for others I'm going to put a spoiler warning


***HOSTEL FILM SPOILER LOOK AWAY IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW!***

Basically during one of the torture scenes a female prisoner has her eye pulled out of its socket. The main character then has to cut the eye stem as there is no way of pushing it back in (face too badly damaged). When he does this a nice stream of yellowish pus gushes out of the wound...its quite revolting.

***SPOILER ENDS***

However the film is utter crap so I wouldn't recommend actualy watching it.

I have a low tolerance for overly violent and overly sexed movies not because it revolts me it just annoys me with the lack of charatcers plot story and such...well I guess it dose revolt me but not in "that" way...

[V-22 Osprey]

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww. (crosses Hostel off list of movies to watch)

[Demontestament]

Well in fear of ruining it for others I'm going to put a spoiler warning


***HOSTEL FILM SPOILER LOOK AWAY IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW!***

Basically during one of the torture scenes a female prisoner has her eye pulled out of its socket. The main character then has to cut the eye stem as there is no way of pushing it back in (face too badly damaged). When he does this a nice stream of yellowish pus gushes out of the wound...its quite revolting.

***SPOILER ENDS***

However the film is utter crap so I wouldn't recommend actualy watching it.

Hostel was crap.....sadly they made Hostel II and they POS Toristas go home, pretty much the same theory behind it. Druken American Teen/College ****s go to some other country. Drunken Sex Orgies happen, they get their **** jacked then killing starts. Honestly I don't think Hostel could get any ****tier even if Uwe Bowl was directing it. So called "Horror" Movies suck now, I think all they go for is trying to scare the dumbass bleach blond freshmen cheerleaders and the people who are two ****ing sheltered from the real world.

[robbway]

I state this in the JT article comments every once in awhile: desensitization to violence is NOT A BAD THING. People just assume it is. There are several careers REQUIRING desensitization to violence: soldier, doctor, nurse, EMT, policeman, forensics, fireman, workers at shelters for the battered and abused, biological research, and more.

I think you'll find that murderers and psychos don't have to be desensitized to violence. It has more to do with detachment, which is not the same thing at all.

[Cecil475]

I felt angry when I saw a suicide-by-cop on Police Videos. I think taking all your pyschological baggage and dumping them onto a bunch of police officers is a pretty crummy thing to do.

Demontestament, I also see you as a bit of a realist... but first, please tell me you don't go around with a creepy Christian-Bale-In-American-Psycho smile or give your friends long speeches on Huey Lewis and the News. :D

Well you don't have to worry about the Huey Lewis and the News thing, if I talked about them I would shoot myself. But I do tend to get the creepy psycho smile sometimes, though every girl who has seen it said it was hot as well.

What thing about Huey Lewis and the News?

- Warren Lewis

[CraigB]

I stopped believing that games desensitized you to real-life violence when I saw a large group of game-playing, tough-talking teens and twentysomethings break out in tears on 9/11.

If anything, that's exactly what made it so horrifying. When people were saying, in shock and disbelief, that "it was like something out of a movie", it showed that they were very good at distinguishing false from real violence, and the violation of that boundary was horrifying in-and-of itself.

Can a game teach you to shoot? Maybe. Games can teach practically everything. (I'm a huge fan of their educational power.) But people still very much recognize the difference between "game" and "real life".

[EightBitJustice]

Do games desensitize us to violence? I don’t think so. Mass Effect and Call of Duty 4 would be the examples I would immediately point to.



I know this has been discussed other places, but the gunship sequence was numbing to me. The flat voices of the crew as they fired down made my jaw drop a bit.

The twist in the middle when the choppers go down nearly brought me to tears.

In Mass Effect when you have to make the call of which crew member dies towards the end, that moment hit me hard, partially because I had used the same party for all 50 hours in my game.


I think if anything, game makers are finally reaching the point where they can create an emotional connection to the gamer. I think it is in that connection where our sensitivity to game violence is found. Do I care when I jump on a Goomba? No. Do I care when I’ve invested time with characters and have to make a decision that greatly impacts them, as in Mass Effect, absolutely.

[KN]

Dude we have a working [spoiler] tag

[EightBitJustice]

Dude we have a working [spoiler] tag

sorry, I fixed it.

[Demontestament]

Do games desensitize us to violence? I don’t think so. Mass Effect and Call of Duty 4 would be the examples I would immediately point to.



I know this has been discussed other places, but the gunship sequence was numbing to me. The flat voices of the crew as they fired down made my jaw drop a bit.

The twist in the middle when the choppers go down nearly brought me to tears.

In Mass Effect when you have to make the call of which crew member dies towards the end, that moment hit me hard, partially because I had used the same party for all 50 hours in my game.


I think if anything, game makers are finally reaching the point where they can create an emotional connection to the gamer. I think it is in that connection where our sensitivity to game violence is found. Do I care when I jump on a Goomba? No. Do I care when I’ve invested time with characters and have to make a decision that greatly impacts them, as in Mass Effect, absolutely.

I spent most of the time in CoD4 using lines from various Schwarzenegger movies. Though two moments in the game stand out in my mind

The part where you have to rescue the helicopter pilot in a given amount of time I was constantly saying "Goooo, Get to da choppa! Do it Nao!" And when the game goes to letting you crawl around a nuclear wasteland I was doing Caboose impressions with "I can't feel my torso" and "My body is trying to die" and as soon as the screen started to fade I muttered "With my last breath....I curse zoidberg."

My dad on the other hand was not expecting the bad guy to detonate the nuke...really? A crazed mad man has a nuke, is backed into a corner with no way out and you don't expect him to blow it up?

Now with Mass Effect my choice between the two was easy. "The xenophobic bitch has to die" didn't care for her ignorant ass much and I was praying for a moment that I got to kill her. I was happy to be able to have a hand in her death.

Yes I have gotten attached to characters in games before, and when they died I wasn't really sad I just thought it was an awesome twist to make the player want to keep playing.