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Soldat_Louis
11-08-2006, 01:13 PM
Well, in France, we don't have a lot of "anti-game personalities". Of course, our mainstream media frequently cover videogames in an execrable way. And from time to time, we hear people (psychiatrists, or intellectuals) denounce videogames or violence in them. But we have no French equivalents of Jack Thompson, Dave Grossman or even Craig Anderson : someone who opposes (violent) videogames regularly until launching a major crusade against them.

No one... but, maybe, Familles de France.

The Fédération Nationale des Familles de France (http://www.familles-de-france.org/) (their full name, but I'll call them FdF to be quick) is a non-profit and non-partisan parental association born after World War 2. Their main actions consist in promoting parenting policies and family values, defending consumers (in a Ralph Nader way, although they're politically on the opposite side), and struggling against pornography and indecency in the media. For example, they successfully made lawsuits against pornography on the Minitel (a French mediocre equivalent of Compuserve, used in the 80's and 90's, but quickly abandoned thanks to the Internet).

They became interested by videogames in 1998, when vice president, Dominique Marcilhacy, decided to buy a computer for her kids, and discovered there existed very violent PC games. Then, she read a column in French conservative newspaper Le Figaro (http://www.lefigaro.fr/) titled La Barbarie Cachée ("the hidden barbary"), that denounced explicitly the most violent games such as Doom, Quake, or Carmaggedon. She then decided to launch an action against violent games.

It happened in february 1999. Marcilhacy, held a press conference in the name of Familles de France, where she targeted "violent, cruel and degrading" games, such as Doom, Carmaggedon, Resident Evil, Duke Nukem 3D... She described the content of the games, called to stop their sale to minors, and threatened to sue retailers and big stores if they didn't retire them from the shelves. FdF also sent a press release to the editors of many mainstream media, who repeated it in their newspapers and magazines without verification. They also bring a "scientific caution" in the person of Doctor Samuel Lepastier, a French psychiatrist who made a speech in february 1999 about the "danger of violent videogames".

The consequences of this action were a media coverage that was mostly in favor of Familles de France's action (which meant mainstream media blamed games once again), and a small moral panic that forced retailers to retire targeted games off the shelves (they were available only in videogame stores, with restricted access). It was aggravated by the news of Columbine school shooting in Littleton, 2 months after FdF's action.

The game industry didn't react much (they just proposed a new game classification, supposedly clearer). But the gamers, and especially the gaming press, reacted very violently by bashing not only Familles de France for their action, but also mainstream media for their biased coverage. Plus, many of them used past accusations of anti-abortion lobbying, bigotry, fundamentalism and right-wing extremism against FdF and some of its leaders, which they contested (a lawsuit was intended against French gaming magazine Joystick, which was convicted in 2000 of defamation against FdF for a violent caricature). Anyway, Familles de France quickly became (and still is) violently hated to the death by French gamers, as much as Jack Thompson is hated by gamers all over the world and for the same reasons.

However, FdF's action calmed down two years later because of endless lawsuits, but also because of internal conflicts (see this site for more info (http://perso.orange.fr/triste-realite/index.htm)). At the beginning of 2001, FdF's president Jacques Bichot, professor in economy, decided to resign, and after a very controversial vote, the new president was Professsor Henri Joyeux, a very controversial figure himself. After series of conflicts between him and the former leading team, Jacques Bichot and Dominique Marcilhacy decided to leave FdF and found the Union des Familles en Europe (http://www.uniondesfamilles.org/), another parenting and consumer association. They published some articles about violence in videogames, but it didn't go very far.

So, from 2001 to 2005, Familles de France made almost no public actions about videogames (except during a TV debate in 2002, after Erfurt school shooting and Beltway sniper attacks). But in 2006, they came back.

First, they asked for reinforced controls (http://www.familles-de-france.org/customer/product.php?productid=313&cat=2&page=1&XCARTSESSID=5bf2f900af715a2af0ff608ae96690d6), arguing that the classification proposed by PEGI (Pan European Game Information, the European equivalent of the ESRB) was not enough to protect kids from violent games.

And last month, they published a press release (http://www.familles-de-france.org/pdf/Video.pdf) where they proposed a new "label Familles de France", in addition of the PEGI game classification, in order to reward "family-friendly" games. Surprisingly, their new press release was very favorable to videogames and their industry, although still denonuncing some violent games such as Manhunt or Postal 2. But it wasn't enough to smoothen the French gaming community : most of the gaming press was sarcastic over FdF's new initiative, and in most forums I've been, they disapproved completely. The main problem with their label was that they wanted to stick it on the cover of the game, although they had no legitimity to do that.

So here's the story of Familles de France. Well, in conclusion, I must say they're not exactly the French equivalent of Jack Thompson, but their 1999's action against violent games, and the following mini-moral panic that forced retailers to temporarily retire some violent games from their shelves, made this association the No. 1 enemy of the French gaming community for a long time, despite their recent "game-friendly" initiative.

Some Lazy Dr
12-10-2006, 03:56 AM
Aww crap! Now we've got a super-Thompson brewing 8,000 miles from here! Good luck, French people!

kurisu7885
12-10-2006, 05:30 AM
If those video games don't come preinstalled on a computer ,they have no right ot raise a fuss over it.

Michael James Nock
12-11-2006, 08:53 AM
I would add a "should" in that sentance. Laws do not need to make sense.

Soldat_Louis
06-03-2007, 03:34 PM
I update this thread because Familles de France wants to ban Second Life in our country (http://www.familles-de-france.org/customer/product.php?productid=534&cat=&page=&XCARTSESSID=004b6b963f2943f92c31972ae107e2c8) In particular, they state that some places contain mimicked pornography, including zoophilia and scatology.

Right now, every French game site reported the news, and it provokes more hilarity than anger. Newspaper Libération has more about it (http://www.ecrans.fr/spip.php?article1459), as it was the first to report the info.

I know it's in French, but a Google translation can allow you to understand the essential. If not, here is a link in English. (http://www.odebi.org/new2/?p=342)

Hannah
06-03-2007, 04:21 PM
I update this thread because Familles de France wants to ban Second Life in our country (http://www.familles-de-france.org/customer/product.php?productid=534&cat=&page=&XCARTSESSID=004b6b963f2943f92c31972ae107e2c8) In particular, they state that some places contain mimicked pornography, including zoophilia and scatology.

Right now, every French game site reported the news, and it provokes more hilarity than anger. Newspaper Libération has more about it (http://www.ecrans.fr/spip.php?article1459), as it was the first to report the info.

I know it's in French, but a Google translation can allow you to understand the essential. If not, here is a link in English. (http://www.odebi.org/new2/?p=342)

I hate to say it, but it's probably for the best... as much fun as it is to screw around with basic 3D modeling, Second Life is a horrible horrible place ;)

MaskedPixelante
06-04-2007, 12:38 AM
Wow... I do a little SLing... if they're concerned about mimicked pornography, they should stay CLEAR of Baird, that's where the WISWRP? cabin is.

Soldat_Louis
06-04-2007, 09:06 AM
Note that the attorney who represents Familles de France on the subject, and who sued Second Life as well as Internet Service Providers, is Antoine Chéron, specialist in the field of video games and intellectual property, and a gamer himself.

More surprising, perhaps, is that Chéron is also vice-président of the "Association Française des Revendeurs Spécialisés" (AFRS). (http://www.afrs.fr/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=2) A good translation would be : "French Game Retailers Association". It's a kind of French equivalent of the EMA, but smaller. So he doesn't exactly have the profile of a cheese-eating Jack Thompson.

For the info, the AFRS already collaborated with Familles de France last year, when FdF proposed to add a supplement sticker on the cover of video games they considered "good for the family". The AFRS also approved when FdF called for reinforced controls for "violent" video games. Their collaboration with this long-time hated organization was not welcome by everyone in the gaming community.

kurisu7885
06-04-2007, 12:44 PM
Thompson esque move in my opinion.

Demontestament
06-05-2007, 07:45 PM
So they are the French version of the PTC? Man I thought crap like this was limited to the US.

MachShot
06-06-2007, 07:34 PM
Nope, other countries are equaly capaple of containing ignorant/stupid people.

Soldat_Louis
06-07-2007, 07:57 AM
In fact, I believe that each country is trapped in its own stupidity, different from other countries.

In France, we have representatives who talk, on TV, about Rule of the Rose involving "raping a 5-years-old girl" or even "raping a six-months-old baby", and comparing it to "ordinary nazism". We also have execrable coverage by mainstream media, so that I could hear stories such as "video games cause epillepsy", "a hostage taker went crazy by playing Super Mario Bros", or "147 japanese middle-schoolers commited suicide by swallowing silicone bags, video games cause suicide, specialists say so". We also have Familles de France (although they calmed down since a couple of years).

In Germany, violent games are censored before being distributed, and FPS games are referred in the mainstream media as "killergames" or "killerspiele". Bavarian minister Gunther Beckstein is talking not only about banning totally violent games, but also putting in jail these games' developpers, publishers AND players. They also have Helga Zepp-LaRouche, Lyndon LaRouche's wife.

In Italy, there was a petition signed by many politicians, including Prime Minister Romano Prodi, and sent to European Parliament in order to ban Rule of the Rose and create a censorship commission to control video game content.

In Greece, there was, for a moment, a law against illegal gambling games, that banned totally video games, ALL video games. It didn't seem to disturb Greek politicians too much.

In United Kingdom, they have Boris Johnson. (http://www.boris-johnson.com/archives/2006/12/computer_games.php)

In Australia, they have a commission that refuses to rate games above 15-years-old people. They also have Christopher Bantick. (http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/01/14/1073877896185.html)

In Canada, they have some anti-violence activists who, like Jacques Brodeur, despise video games enough (and not only violent ones) to target them systematically. Examples in English : here (http://www.edupax.org/Assets/divers/documentation/1_articles/1_058_Confronting_Violence.pdf), here (http://edupax.org/Assets/divers/documentation/1_articles/1_062_ACME_2006_Workshop.pdf) and here (http://edupax.org/Assets/divers/documentation/1_articles/1_051_Preventing%20Youth%20Violence%20With%20Media %20Educati.pdf)

And in the USA, you have Jack Thompson, Dave Grossman, Lyndon LaRouche, etc...

Soldat_Louis
06-19-2007, 10:31 AM
Last news from Familles de France vs. Second Life :

- 2 weeks ago (june 5th), Linden Lab replied (http://www.smh.com.au/news/Technology/Second-Life-says-its-virtual-world-is-adultsonly/2007/06/05/1180809478509.html) that Second Life was "adult only".

- Still 2 weeks ago (june 6th), Michel Bonnet, from Familles de France, said in an interview (http://tf1.lci.fr/infos/high-tech/0,,3464965,00-nous-cherchons-pas-interdire-second-life-.html) (in French) that their goal was not to ban Second Life

- And the most important : yesterday was the beginning of the judicial fight (http://www.lemonde.fr/web/depeches/0,14-0,39-31334966@7-50,0.html). This is a news taken from Le Monde, one of the most reputed journals in France (although their reputation is sometimes over-estimated, but that's another story). It's in French, but a Google translation will allow you to understand the essential. In summary, the lawsuit started yesterday, and the defense lawyers accused Familles de France of "ambushing" Second Life and Internet service providers.

The judge will give his decision on july 2nd.

Soldat_Louis
07-02-2007, 02:53 PM
And finally, Familles de France lost its case. (http://today.reuters.fr/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2007-07-02T154258Z_01_CHE254575_RTRIDST_0_OFRTP-FRANCE-JUSTICE-INTERNET-SECOND-LIFE-20070702.XML&archived=False)

Judge Emmanuel Binoche considered that Familles de France gave no proof for their accusations. FdF had made a process server's affidavit, but it was 3-months-old.

Plaintiffs are not able to proof that there had a major illicit trouble, nor a risk of immediate damage implying minors, which could justify an urgent action.

Consequently, Familles de France will have to pay 4700 euros (6400 dollars) to Linden Lab and Internet Service Providers it had sued.

Interviewed by Libération (http://www.ecrans.fr/spip.php?article1685), Antoine Chéron, attorney representing FdF, said he was "surprised" by this decision. But he considered that it was, in some way, a victory, because they "informed public opinion on a part of Second Life's content".

ZeRu
07-05-2007, 11:58 AM
They also have Helga Zepp-LaRouche, Lyndon LaRouche's wife.

In Germany, they also have very hard stance about Scientology, which is looked upon as dangerous cult and is recognized as business, rather than religion.
Is there any hope of influencing German politicians so that LaRouche cult deserves (at least) the same treatment as Scientology? They are apparently much more dangerous, but they don't have Hollywood superstars promoting their agenda.

Grahamr
07-05-2007, 10:58 PM
In fact, I believe that each country is trapped in its own stupidity, different from other countries.

In France, we have representatives who talk, on TV, about Rule of the Rose involving "raping a 5-years-old girl" or even "raping a six-months-old baby", and comparing it to "ordinary nazism". We also have execrable coverage by mainstream media, so that I could hear stories such as "video games cause epillepsy", "a hostage taker went crazy by playing Super Mario Bros", or "147 japanese middle-schoolers commited suicide by swallowing silicone bags, video games cause suicide, specialists say so". We also have Familles de France (although they calmed down since a couple of years).

In Germany, violent games are censored before being distributed, and FPS games are referred in the mainstream media as "killergames" or "killerspiele". Bavarian minister Gunther Beckstein is talking not only about banning totally violent games, but also putting in jail these games' developpers, publishers AND players. They also have Helga Zepp-LaRouche, Lyndon LaRouche's wife.

In Italy, there was a petition signed by many politicians, including Prime Minister Romano Prodi, and sent to European Parliament in order to ban Rule of the Rose and create a censorship commission to control video game content.

In Greece, there was, for a moment, a law against illegal gambling games, that banned totally video games, ALL video games. It didn't seem to disturb Greek politicians too much.

In United Kingdom, they have Boris Johnson. (http://www.boris-johnson.com/archives/2006/12/computer_games.php)

In Australia, they have a commission that refuses to rate games above 15-years-old people. They also have Christopher Bantick. (http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/01/14/1073877896185.html)

In Canada, they have some anti-violence activists who, like Jacques Brodeur, despise video games enough (and not only violent ones) to target them systematically. Examples in English : here (http://www.edupax.org/Assets/divers/documentation/1_articles/1_058_Confronting_Violence.pdf), here (http://edupax.org/Assets/divers/documentation/1_articles/1_062_ACME_2006_Workshop.pdf) and here (http://edupax.org/Assets/divers/documentation/1_articles/1_051_Preventing%20Youth%20Violence%20With%20Media %20Educati.pdf)

And in the USA, you have Jack Thompson, Dave Grossman, Lyndon LaRouche, etc...

That's a preety good Summary of the Censorcrat faction.

Soldat_Louis
07-06-2007, 05:07 AM
Ah ! At last I have a link in English (http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/07/02/french-court-rules-in-favor-of-linden-lab/) about Familles de France's defeat in court.