Wonder Twin Powers Activate : Form of a [NEWS] in shape of more [NEWS] 4/14-4/20

[Demontestament]

It is time for this weeks news.



Sorry I don't know why your [NEWS] title made me think of the new title but it did so there. -Toll

Edit: >.< It was a reference to the movie Anchorman. Not the Justice league!

Would explain it, I don't like Wil Ferrel Movies... made me think old Justice League. -Toll

[Demontestament]

http://www.thestar.com/entertainment/article/414133

Anything for ratings. It looks like Oprah's lap dog is desperate to get attention again. So he decides to tackle this hard issue just like he tackled he Holloway case and the Britney Spears fiasco. Both of which did nothing but land him in some hot water. I am going to laugh is the defense in the case says that the teens who appear on Dr. Phil's show are bettered now that they have been verbally assaulted by this hack.

[KN]

Verily, being verbally assaulted by a man with a history of domestic abuse will make you a better wife/husband/father/mother/daughter/son/baby-daddy

[beemoh]

To the tin-foil hatmobile!

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/music/a93780/keys-gangsta-rap-was-government-ploy.html

Keys: 'Gangsta rap was government ploy'

Alicia Keys has claimed that the musical genre "gangsta rap" was created by the US government.

The R&B star told Blender magazine that the movement was designed to "convince black people to kill each other".

She also suggested that the deaths of hip-hop stars Tupac Shakur and Notorious B.I.G were designed to hinder influential black politicians.

Keys said: "The murders were fuelled to stop a great black leader from existing."

This is either a joke or a spectacular misquote.

[Demontestament]

To the tin-foil hatmobile!

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/music/a93780/keys-gangsta-rap-was-government-ploy.html



This is either a joke or a spectacular misquote.

I lol'd

She also suggested that the deaths of hip-hop stars Tupac Shakur and Notorious B.I.G were designed to hinder influential black politicians. If that is the case then Shug Knight is a Federal Agent.

Keys said: "The murders were fuelled to stop a great black leader from existing."

I highly doubt the murders of two bangers who made it as rappers were specifically carried out to stop black people from rising to power.

[beemoh]

I highly doubt the murders of two bangers who made it as rappers were specifically carried out to stop black people from rising to power. If that is the case Shug Knight is a Federal Agent.

That's what they WANT you to think! You're one of THEM!, etc

[Pelor]

To the tin-foil hatmobile!

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/music/a93780/keys-gangsta-rap-was-government-ploy.html

This is either a joke or a spectacular misquote.

But it's true! I was done by the same people who faked to moon-landing.

[BlackIce, British Commie]

But it's true! I was done by the same people who faked to moon-landing.

You were ****ed by conspiracy theorists?

[Demontestament]

But it's true! I was done by the same people who faked to moon-landing.

I love how once again someone is trying to blame everything wrong in the black community on the evil white government. Though I have to say this is one of the more creative conspiracy theories I have read. Can we say country music was invented to make southerners have incest to create physically deformed children so the medical care system would not die?

[KN]

Barry White is responsible for overpopulation! You heard it here first.

[Demontestament]

Barry White is responsible for overpopulation! You heard it here first.

Now that is something I can believe.

[BlackIce, British Commie]

I love how once again someone is trying to blame everything wrong in the black community on the evil white government. Though I have to say this is one of the more creative conspiracy theories I have read. Can we say country music was invented to make southerners have incest to create physically deformed children so the medical care system would not die?

Yes, and it makes sense too.

[Pelor]

Yes! Africans invented country music to make southerners incestuous!

[KN]

Yes! Africans invented country music to make southerners incestuous!

And also that devil rock music! (well, african-americans but wutever)

[Ace_ofspade]

And also that devil rock music! (well, african-americans but wutever)

Repetitious thumps are the devil's sound.

[MUTANT SPUD]

Barry White is responsible for overpopulation! You heard it here first.:)Barry White was proud of the fact that he caused a rise in the birth rate in the 70's I heard him say it in an interview first..NyaaaaH:p

[MUTANT SPUD]

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_8526618
My mum worked in the prison service for 16 years, and she reckons the bulk of pedophiles just need to be either locked up for ever or, in her words "Put against the wall and shot to make space in the prisons". I oppose the death penalty but I'd be happy to see them rot in jail and if they felt like topping themselves they should be given every facility to do so.
In Victoria where I live they are using a sort of work around for the worst cases, they technically release the prisoner after they've served their time but put them under indefinite state supervision and make them live in accomodation on the prison grounds. They're trying to make a new regime for all serial sex offenders to be put on permanent restrictions and supervision orders.

[MUTANT SPUD]

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23543483-23109,00.htmlCHEEKY Prince William smuggled girls into a hotel room to take compromising photos at a wild stag night - but it was the young royal who was caught with his pants down. What would we do without the Sun, how would we ever hear about these things? Sounds like a good night, 8 CD's hung on one pair of breasts..classy.

[Brokenscope]

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23543483-23109,00.html What would we do without the Sun, how would we ever hear about these things? Sounds like a good night, 8 CD's hung on one pair of breasts..classy.

Hmm, college age people acting like college age people, regardless of their status as royalty. Who would have thought.

8 cd's doesn't seem all that impressive though.

[Tollwutig]

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23543483-23109,00.html What would we do without the Sun, how would we ever hear about these things? Sounds like a good night, 8 CD's hung on one pair of breasts..classy.

Hmmm please tell me they got more than the one picture! William could easily make a career in nude modeling if the royalty gig ever gets old.

[BlackIce, British Commie]

Hmmm please tell me they got more than the one picture! William could easily make a career in nude modeling if the royalty gig ever gets old.

We aren't planning on any Revolutions in the next 500 years.

[Tollwutig]

We aren't planning on any Revolutions in the next 500 years.

Well at least keep him for breeding, and make sure you guys pair him off with some good genes. No sense in bringing back the looks of the rest of the Windsor clan. I still can't conceive how Charles fathered William.

[beemoh]

I still can't conceive how Charles fathered William.

That's alright, neither did he!

*badum-tish*

[Demontestament]

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_8526618
My mum worked in the prison service for 16 years, and she reckons the bulk of pedophiles just need to be either locked up for ever or, in her words "Put against the wall and shot to make space in the prisons". I oppose the death penalty but I'd be happy to see them rot in jail and if they felt like topping themselves they should be given every facility to do so.
In Victoria where I live they are using a sort of work around for the worst cases, they technically release the prisoner after they've served their time but put them under indefinite state supervision and make them live in accomodation on the prison grounds. They're trying to make a new regime for all serial sex offenders to be put on permanent restrictions and supervision orders.

I on the other hand support the death penality and think every rapist/murderer/drug runner/gang banger should be shot the moment they enter the prison and tossed into an incinerator.

Colorado could put child rapists to death under a bill that won a Senate committee's approval Monday and would put the state on par with just five others that allow the execution of such sex offenders.

Prosecutors could try for the death penalty in cases in which rape victims are 12 or younger, where DNA evidence is present and where the perpetrator has been previously convicted of a sex offense against a child.

I support this idea :D. Kill all the ****ers as painfully as possible. Have a problem with "Causing a human harm"? Then don't think of them as human. A human would not subjugate a child to the torture of rape. Monsters do that, not humans. Pass a law that strips them of their rights the moment they enter the jail, hell we do that to our military the moment they enter boot.

[Demontestament]

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23543483-23109,00.html What would we do without the Sun, how would we ever hear about these things? Sounds like a good night, 8 CD's hung on one pair of breasts..classy.

You know the oddest thing I read in that story was this

After downing a few beer bongs, the princes dared girls to bare their breasts and hang CDs off their nipples, The Sun reported.

Harry, 23, cheered loudly as one girl managed an impressive eight CDs.

:eek: Eight?

[BlackIce, British Commie]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/uk/7348364.stm

Two men tried to blackmail a member of the Royal Family with a sound recording containing claims he had performed a gay sex act, a court has heard.

The Old Bailey was told that Ian Strachan and Sean McGuigan demanded £50,000 from the unidentified Royal Family member, called Witness A.

Of course, this royal member wasn't actually one of the famous ones. Probably a second cousin or something like that.

[BlackIce, British Commie]

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9590_22-6237191.html

A Microsoft manager has said that one of the security features in Vista was deliberately designed to "annoy users" to put pressure on third-party software makers to make their applications more secure.

"The reason we put UAC into the (Vista) platform was to annoy users--I'm serious," said Cross, speaking at the RSA Conference here Thursday. "Most users had administrator privileges on previous Windows systems and most applications needed administrator privileges to install or run."

Wankers.

[KN]

That's brilliant <3

[Tollwutig]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/uk/7348364.stm



Of course, this royal member wasn't actually one of the famous ones. Probably a second cousin or something like that.

Probably not one of the primary line... to bad though.

[Thefremen]

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_8526618
My mum worked in the prison service for 16 years, and she reckons the bulk of pedophiles just need to be either locked up for ever or, in her words "Put against the wall and shot to make space in the prisons". I oppose the death penalty but I'd be happy to see them rot in jail and if they felt like topping themselves they should be given every facility to do so.
In Victoria where I live they are using a sort of work around for the worst cases, they technically release the prisoner after they've served their time but put them under indefinite state supervision and make them live in accomodation on the prison grounds. They're trying to make a new regime for all serial sex offenders to be put on permanent restrictions and supervision orders.

The best thing about this law is when you consider all the child care workers who've been put in jail by what children said in hypnosis sessions with shrinks, where the physical evidence actually goes against the testimony.

Just think of all the innocent people killed by over-enthusiastic Chris Hanson wanna-bes! Truely this bill will produce fitting tributes to the Chaos God of Blood! Death to the False Emperor!

[BlackIce, British Commie]

The best thing about this law is when you consider all the child care workers who've been put in jail by what children said in hypnosis sessions with shrinks, where the physical evidence actually goes against the testimony.

Just think of all the innocent people killed by over-enthusiastic Chris Hanson wanna-bes! Truely this bill will produce fitting tributes to the Chaos God of Blood! Death to the False Emperor!

An Exterminatus is now in effect on your home town. Heresy will not be tolerated.

[Thefremen]

An Exterminatus is now in effect on your home town. Heresy will not be tolerated.

But I only made those remarks with sarcaaaaaaaaaaaasm...

[BlackIce, British Commie]

But I only made those remarks with sarcaaaaaaaaaaaasm...

If I were to change my mind now, what kind of Emperor would I be? Drop dead.

[Demontestament]

The best thing about this law is when you consider all the child care workers who've been put in jail by what children said in hypnosis sessions with shrinks, where the physical evidence actually goes against the testimony.

Just think of all the innocent people killed by over-enthusiastic Chris Hanson wanna-bes! Truely this bill will produce fitting tributes to the Chaos God of Blood! Death to the False Emperor!

True but if you look at this from the story....

Prosecutors could try for the death penalty in cases in which rape victims are 12 or younger, where DNA evidence is present and where the perpetrator has been previously convicted of a sex offense against a child.

There needs to be DNA evidence to back the claim of rape. So nobody is just put down because someone decided to use their kid to exact revenge on someone they had a problem with. I could see a very scorned mom who's husband ran off with a 24 year old, trying to brainwash her daughter into thinking he raped her.

[Demontestament]

The billionaire founder of Black Entertainment Television says Barack Obama wouldn’t be his party’s leading presidential candidate if he was white.

Hillary Clinton supporter Bob Johnson has revived comments previously made by Geraldine Ferraro, telling The Charlotte Observer,

“What I believe Ferraro meant is that if you take a freshman senator from Illinois called ‘Jerry Smith’ and he says I’m going to run for president, would he start off with 90 percent of the black vote? And the answer is, probably not… Geraldine Ferraro said it right. The problem is, Geraldine Ferraro is white. This campaign has such a hair-trigger on anything racial … it is almost impossible for anybody to say anything.”

Ferraro stepped down last month as an adviser to the Clinton campaign after she said something similar.

Obama’s campaign calls the latest remarks “just one in a long line of absurd comments by Johnson and other Clinton supporters who will say or do anything to get the nomination.” They say the American people are tired of this kind of politics.

Johnson also says Obama is likely to win the nomination and that he has the support of the “liberal media.”

He stirred up controversy earlier in the campaign when he referred to Obama and “what he was doing in the neighborhood.” Many took that as a reference to drug use, although Johnson later insisted he was talking about Obama’s time as a community organizer.

Lol the founder of one of the most ignorant and racist channels is out there talking politics and playing the race card.

"The problem is, Geraldine Ferraro is white. This campaign has such a hair-trigger on anything racial … it is almost impossible for anybody to say anything.”

Holy **** a reverse race card! :eek: Oh wait he supports Hillary, her entire campaign staff is playing this card every time Obama speaks.

I really wonder of anyone cares what the moron who created BET thinks about the political situation.

[Demontestament]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/04/15/pope.us/index.html

Why in the hell would the Emperor of the Imperial Forces want to meet with Bush? The man isn't even worthy to be a stormtrooper.

http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2008/US/04/15/pope.us/art.popemobile.cnn.jpg

WTB better Popemobile. I would have at least tried to make it look like an imperial class transport, or TIE fighter.

[Demontestament]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/15/rape.execution/index.html

Unlike the 3,300 inmates awaiting execution nationwide -- including the 94 other men at Angola -- Kennedy, 43, is a convicted rapist. The victim was his 8-year-old stepdaughter.

I would like this execution televised please.

The constitutional question before the justices is whether the death penalty for violent crimes other than homicide constitutes "cruel and unusual" punishment.

Cruel and unusual punishment? What about the little girl he raped? Her life is ruined thanks to this bastard and they are worried about Cruel and unusual punishment?

The high-profile examination of the death penalty also raises anew a national debate over selective prosecution and race.

Oh you have to be ****ing me. He rapes a little girl and yet idiots are still crying racism? Yeah he was only convicted of raping a little girl because he was black, if he was white he would be allowed to rape her as much as he wanted to :rolleyes:. Can we line up anyone defending this guy and take them out by firing squad? I mean they don't bring anything good to society anyway, all they do is look at any case in the US and if the defendant is black they scream racism.

[Demontestament]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/15/sect.mothers/index.html

This story made me laugh, no not at the actual trial but at the morons in the story who actually defend their rights to marry off their 14 year old daughters to some pervert. Their complaints have it all, comedy, stupidity, mind melting idiocy and even......

But the women on the YFZ ranch say they're being treated like Jews during the Holocaust.

"We have been persecuted for our religion," Kathleen said. "We are being treated like the Jews were when they were escorted to the German Nazi camps."

GODWINISM!

And the women say the state is placing their children in greater danger by exposing them to things they would have never seen at the ranch.

"They are clean and pure," one mother said of the children. "This is the worst thing happening to them. They are learning terrible things from the questions being asked, things that they have never been exposed to. They have been so protected here.

Greater danger? From what? Information that at 14 they don't have to lay back and let some sick bastard who is more than twice their age **** them because Warren Jeffs said so? The worst thing that can happen to them is to send them back into that hell hole and let them continue being treated as nothing more than sexual object to be used by pedophiles and rapists. People who tell the girls they will be damned to hell unless they allow some sicko to **** them and get them pregnant.

[Ace_ofspade]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/04/15/pope.us/index.html

Why in the hell would the Emperor of the Imperial Forces want to meet with Bush? The man isn't even worthy to be a stormtrooper.

http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2008/US/04/15/pope.us/art.popemobile.cnn.jpg

WTB better Popemobile. I would have at least tried to make it look like an imperial class transport, or TIE fighter.

So wait, we're taking the pope; to Catholics, the holiest man in the world; and exposing him to Yankee Stadium and the average New York baseball fan?

[Demontestament]

So wait, we're taking the pope; to Catholics, the holiest man in the world; and exposing him to Yankee Stadium and the average New York baseball fan?

He is a Yankee fan and he wants to bless the team :D. With the power of the Dark Side behind us, we cannot lose this year :D.

[Kincyr]

the real question is "If Bush and the pope got into a fight, who would you root for?"
I'm not asking who would win because the idea of the two fighting, regardless of the outcome, is hilarious.

[Thefremen]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/04/15/pope.us/index.html

Why in the hell would the Emperor of the Imperial Forces want to meet with Bush? The man isn't even worthy to be a stormtrooper.

http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2008/US/04/15/pope.us/art.popemobile.cnn.jpg

WTB better Popemobile. I would have at least tried to make it look like an imperial class transport, or TIE fighter.

Dude, it's a Benz. The pope knows how to roll, although he should get 20s, low profile tires and some serious sound.

[MUTANT SPUD]

Well at least keep him for breeding, and make sure you guys pair him off with some good genes. No sense in bringing back the looks of the rest of the Windsor clan. I still can't conceive how Charles fathered William.I don't know if anyone else has noticed but William is going bald, like his uncle Edward.

[Hannah]

I don't know if anyone else has noticed but William is going bald, like his uncle Edward.

Does it matter? Even bald, he'll still be hot.

[MUTANT SPUD]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/uk/7348364.stm



Of course, this royal member wasn't actually one of the famous ones. Probably a second cousin or something like that.I think it was Viscount Linley, that was the rumour I heard anyway. Or the whole thing was a con..one or the other.

[beemoh]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3072021.stm

Men could reduce their risk of developing prostate cancer through regular masturbation, researchers suggest.

\o/

o/
\

[Demontestament]

Dude, it's a Benz. The pope knows how to roll, although he should get 20s, low profile tires and some serious sound.

Don't forget spinners.

[beemoh]

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/music/a93977/keys-clarifies-gangsta-rap-remarks.html

Alicia Keys has attempted to clarify comments she made about gangsta rap in a magazine interview.

The singer told Blender that the musical genre was created by the US government to "convince black people to kill each other".

However, she later said she was "disappointed" with the outcry caused by the remarks, telling Ryan Seacrest's radio show: "Somehow it got misinterpreted that I was saying that the government was creating gangsta rap - and that's not what I was saying.

"What I was saying was that the term gangsta rap was so over-sloganised during that time... That's what I was trying to talk about.

[BlackIce, British Commie]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3072021.stm



\o/

o/
\

Er.. Not what you'd generally expect.

[Demontestament]

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/music/a93977/keys-clarifies-gangsta-rap-remarks.html

She just keeps digging herself deeper and deeper.

[Demontestament]

http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?section=news/local&id=6083383

Fresno, CA (KFSN) -- A Fresno high school student has been shot and killed at a police officer on campus.

Police say the officer fired after the student at Roosevelt High School allegedly hit the officer with a baseball bat. The cause of the attack is not immediately known.

The incident occurred just before 12 p.m. Wednesday. The officer is employed by the police department as the school's resource officer. The officer's condition was not immediately released.

Racism cited for shooting in 5, 4, 3, 2....

Edit: I called it! I ****ing called it. Read the comments to the story and look how many morons are citing Racism and siding with the student. People are saying the cop shouldn't have shot. Ok so he should just take a beating? Oh and just a little inside on the kids brain power to think a bat beats a gun (17 year old Sophomore) that should show you how stupid he was.

Now for a future prediction. Mom and dad are going to go on TV and talk about how wonderful and innocent their son was. How he never hurt a soul and never did anything wrong, and the officer should be arrested for taking an innocent life. The officer will be placed on leave while a "Special Investigation" takes place. People will start calling for the officers arrest because he "is obviously racist." I mean how dare he defend himself from an attacker.

[Thefremen]

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/87851

Fewer and fewer American blacks are pursuing the path cleared by Robinson.

When the Red Sox became the final major league team to integrate in 1959 by signing Pumpsie Green, nearly 1-in-5 major leaguers was black. As recently as 1983, the ratio was better than 1-in-4.

Now the figure is closer to 1-in-12.

A report from the University of Central Florida’s Institute for Diversity and Ethics in Sport found that American or non-Hispanic blacks made up only 8.4 percent of major league rosters in 2006. Whites made up 59.5 percent, Hispanics (a group that includes Americanborn Hispanics, blacks from Spanish-speaking countries and others from Latin America) made up 29.4 percent and Asians 2.4 percent.

So basically if someone's decendants were forced into slavery by the British, they're "Black", if someone's decendants were forced into slavery by the Spanish or Portuguese they are Hispanics?

If we applied the same standard to Basketball then NO whites play (since they're mostly from EU countries) and a few of those blacks aren't black either (some are from France, Brazil, et cetra).

This is like some kind of high functioning autistic form of Racism where not only does the color of your skin count, but also your geographical background and i'm guessing even choice of softdrink.

[MUTANT SPUD]

A round up of the latest Australian Lunacy..Enjoy

Wife killer 'meant to stab himself'
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23549660-29277,00.html
"No, that's not true," Mr Abusoud said, adding he didn't call for an ambulance when he saw all the blood because he thought he was in "a virtual reality". File this under "A likely story", along with "the devil/ video games/heavy metal/ peer group pressure made me do it". He could just have booted her out the door and divorced her ..but he didn't.

Mum injected toxic water into baby son
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23554070-29277,00.html
A 21-YEAR-OLD NSW mother has admitted injecting contaminated water into the intravenous drip of her hospitalised six-month-old son with intent to harm him. Oh god no!

Man jailed for gouging out wife's eye
A MAN who stunned his de facto wife with a cow prod and gouged her eye out with his thumb has been jailed for six years.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23553836-29277,00.html AAAAARgh! Jesus I know that area well, the pub is at least 500 metres from the nearest house..she must have been in agony..AAAARgh!..it makes me wince just reading it

[MUTANT SPUD]

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/87851



So basically if someone's decendants were forced into slavery by the British, they're "Black", if someone's decendants were forced into slavery by the Spanish or Portuguese they are Hispanics?

If we applied the same standard to Basketball then NO whites play (since they're mostly from EU countries) and a few of those blacks aren't black either (some are from France, Brazil, et cetra).

This is like some kind of high functioning autistic form of Racism where not only does the color of your skin count, but also your geographical background and i'm guessing even choice of softdrink.Meh..people will always discriminate, if not by race then by religion, political affiliation or whatever. As long as people don't use it as an excuse to harm others it's no big deal.
Could the fact that baseball is boring have anything to do with it's decline in popularity among African Americans? (holds up keyboard to protect face)

[Thefremen]

Meh..people will always discriminate, if not by race then by religion, political affiliation or whatever. As long as people don't use it as an excuse to harm others it's no big deal.
Could the fact that baseball is boring have anything to do with it's decline in popularity among African Americans? (holds up keyboard to protect face)

Well the fact that was skirted over by the article but mentioned in the mid-section is that there's a decline in Americans playing American Baseball, both white and black. The best players are coming from South America where it is very VERY common for the vast majority of the youth to play some form of stickball, building baseball skills from a very young age. The white players are coming from Australia, Canada, etc. If they were really desperate to balance things out I guess they could recruit cricket players.

Anyways I don't care, I think a lot of people don't care, but I just find it awfully funny that this guy in florida doesn't count blacks from south america as black in order to create a race issue which simply doesn't exist.

[MUTANT SPUD]

Well the fact that was skirted over by the article but mentioned in the mid-section is that there's a decline in Americans playing American Baseball, both white and black. The best players are coming from South America where it is very VERY common for the vast majority of the youth to play some form of stickball, building baseball skills from a very young age. The white players are coming from Australia, Canada, etc. If they were really desperate to balance things out I guess they could recruit cricket players.

Anyways I don't care, I think a lot of people don't care, but I just find it awfully funny that this guy in florida doesn't count blacks from south america as black in order to create a race issue which simply doesn't exist.It is a tad askew, and do many Japanese players play in the U.S leagues? Don't know that cricket skills would automatically translate to baseball, however maybe what's needed is a modified form of the game like they're doing with the 20/20 cricket league in India,its like an all star competition with shorter more exciting matches where teams play for significant cash prizes. The sponsors have gone ape sh*t because of the huge marketing opportunities on the sub continent.

[nightwng2000]

Ya know, a comment made in a story on TV today about all those kids taken from their Parents actually says a LOT about the government and how it thinks it is more "morally superior" than Parents to decide what is or is not appropriate for children.

I know it seems small and insignificant, but the comment was that the kids are playing games that they've never been exposed to before.

Including Ping Pong.

Now, for WHATEVER reason, the kids were not allowed to play such a game.

So, the government feels it has the right to contridict the teachings of these Parents, even with something so small as Ping Pong.

I'm being serious, no sarcasm here.

Really, if these kids are returned to their Parents, they have, in effect, been mentally molested by the government with beliefs and exposures that the Parents, for WHATEVER reason, had not wanted them exposed to.

Politicians have been arguing that this thing or the other is inappropriate for children. Now they are, in effect, saying that THEIR method alone is correct.

Indeed, I find the story most interesting in that a religious leader OTHER THAN someone who knows specifically about their religion that is deciding whether they were treated fairly in being taken away or not.

It's like having a religious "Reprogrammer" grab a child from another religious organization and try to brainwash a child into believing that the "Reprogrammer's" religion is the "correct" religion.

I notice, too, that an authority figure of Texas is arguing "bigamy", even though this is a matter of a religious belief, not merely an individual having a secret affair. Whether we believe that religion or that particular belief, they do believe it openly.

Also, you'll notice I skipped the popular age issue. Let's face it, state to state there is an inconsistant view of what is considered a proper age of consent. And a great many laws contridict each other as to how "mature" an individual a minor may be at any particular age. Even individual legal cases have created a legal mess in regards consistancy. So I'm not bothering with the age issue. It's too much of a smokescreen to cover up the differing overall religious beliefs of this group and how they are being treated by the government.

[BlackIce, British Commie]

Ya know, a comment made in a story on TV today about all those kids taken from their Parents actually says a LOT about the government and how it thinks it is more "morally superior" than Parents to decide what is or is not appropriate for children.

I know it seems small and insignificant, but the comment was that the kids are playing games that they've never been exposed to before.


Ey, Ey ey ey ey! Poligamist Mormons there! I wouldn't leave a child within 500 yards of the Perimeter fence, let alone inside with a "Family" like that for the few years of their lives they have.

[nightwng2000]

Ey, Ey ey ey ey! Poligamist Mormons there! I wouldn't leave a child within 500 yards of the Perimeter fence, let alone inside with a "Family" like that for the few years of their lives they have.

In regards to raising your own child, that's YOUR Right as your own child's Parent.

But you no more have the Right to dictate the religion that THEY must follow any more than they have the Right to dictate the religious belifs YOU must follow.

That's true no matter what the religious difference.

As much as we may not like, and in fact oppose, the beliefs of others, we should not have, nor should the government have, the Right to dictate a code of "moral superiority" over anyone's beliefs, relgious or not.

[Thefremen]

Ya know, a comment made in a story on TV today about all those kids taken from their Parents actually says a LOT about the government and how it thinks it is more "morally superior" than Parents to decide what is or is not appropriate for children.

I know it seems small and insignificant, but the comment was that the kids are playing games that they've never been exposed to before.

Including Ping Pong.

Now, for WHATEVER reason, the kids were not allowed to play such a game.

So, the government feels it has the right to contridict the teachings of these Parents, even with something so small as Ping Pong.

I'm being serious, no sarcasm here.

Really, if these kids are returned to their Parents, they have, in effect, been mentally molested by the government with beliefs and exposures that the Parents, for WHATEVER reason, had not wanted them exposed to.

Politicians have been arguing that this thing or the other is inappropriate for children. Now they are, in effect, saying that THEIR method alone is correct.

Indeed, I find the story most interesting in that a religious leader OTHER THAN someone who knows specifically about their religion that is deciding whether they were treated fairly in being taken away or not.

It's like having a religious "Reprogrammer" grab a child from another religious organization and try to brainwash a child into believing that the "Reprogrammer's" religion is the "correct" religion.

I notice, too, that an authority figure of Texas is arguing "bigamy", even though this is a matter of a religious belief, not merely an individual having a secret affair. Whether we believe that religion or that particular belief, they do believe it openly.

Also, you'll notice I skipped the popular age issue. Let's face it, state to state there is an inconsistant view of what is considered a proper age of consent. And a great many laws contridict each other as to how "mature" an individual a minor may be at any particular age. Even individual legal cases have created a legal mess in regards consistancy. So I'm not bothering with the age issue. It's too much of a smokescreen to cover up the differing overall religious beliefs of this group and how they are being treated by the government.

http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10062/normal_ChrisHLOL.jpg

[KN]

JB threads are hilarious because half of the chicks they post aren't pretty at all. It's just that they're 16 and thus FORBIDDEN for Americans.

[nightwng2000]

Except that it has nothing to do with "jailbait", as I pointed out in the post.

Bringing up "jailbait" in the issue of religions that believe in marrying more than one person is as much a smoke screen as claiming that legalized homosexual marriage will be an endorsement of pedophilia.

Polygamy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy


The term polygamy (a Greek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_language) word meaning "the practice of multiple marriage") is used in related ways in social anthropology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_anthropology), sociobiology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociobiology), and sociology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociology). Polygamy can be defined as any "form of marriage in which a person [has] more than one spouse."[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy#cite_note-0)


No where does it say "but only marriage to children.".

So the "jailbait" argument is just shell gamery.

Just as much as those who try to associate pedophilia to homosexuality.

[BlackIce, British Commie]

Except that it has nothing to do with "jailbait", as I pointed out in the post.

Bringing up "jailbait" in the issue of religions that believe in marrying more than one person is as much a smoke screen as claiming that legalized homosexual marriage will be an endorsement of pedophilia.

Polygamy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy



No where does it say "but only marriage to children.".

So the "jailbait" argument is just shell gamery.

Just as much as those who try to associate pedophilia to homosexuality.

Oddly enough, the Pope did make a distinction between Gay and Paedophile.

HOWEVER! I believe those children are out of there because the Prosecution classifies the Ranch as one household, and because that 16 year old was sexually abused, they are all at risk.

[Thefremen]

Except that it has nothing to do with "jailbait", as I pointed out in the post.

Bringing up "jailbait" in the issue of religions that believe in marrying more than one person is as much a smoke screen as claiming that legalized homosexual marriage will be an endorsement of pedophilia.

Polygamy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy



No where does it say "but only marriage to children.".

So the "jailbait" argument is just shell gamery.

Just as much as those who try to associate pedophilia to homosexuality.

But we're talking about a real life raid, or at least you were. The kids being married were 16 and under, according to all the articles I could find with Google, the raid began when a 16 year old called police about being abused and said she had a kid at 15.

Sure, polygamy on it's own wouldn't be all that bad but that's not what we're talking about, we're talking about a Real Life situation where Real minors were being "married against their will" to men 2x their age. I suppose I could take your tactics and mention Aushwitz then say "omg what's so wrong about taking people with no jobs and giving them jobs in a camp envirnoment where they are supervised so noone is able to come to harm and given excellent medical care?!" sure, a labor camp COULD be run like that, but the actual thing that exists IRL is quite a different manner.

Need I remind you that this wonderland of child rape was also started by Warren Jeffs, so it more than likely had thousands of guns and operated in the same way as his other camps.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2008/04/10/2008-04-10_authorities_find_a_bed_in_the_temple_at_.html

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2008/04/09/2008-04-09_polygamist_sect_forced_girls_to_marry_at.html

[Demontestament]

In regards to raising your own child, that's YOUR Right as your own child's Parent.

But you no more have the Right to dictate the religion that THEY must follow any more than they have the Right to dictate the religious belifs YOU must follow.

That's true no matter what the religious difference.

As much as we may not like, and in fact oppose, the beliefs of others, we should not have, nor should the government have, the Right to dictate a code of "moral superiority" over anyone's beliefs, relgious or not.

So you would rather have the government give the kids back so they can be married off at 14 to 45 year old men and be treated as nothing but sex objects? I am sorry in this case the government has every right to step in seeing as how that falls under child rape and molestation laws.

The polygamist sects are filled with nothing but pedos who love to control women and rape little girls. They brainwash the kids into thinking if the believe anything other than what Warren Jeff's or their sect leader says, they will burn in hell for all eternity.

It has nothing to do with "Moral Superiority" it has to do with children being used as sex objects and abused. Even if you put "Religious Beliefs" in front of it, it is still a crime.

[Thefremen]

It has nothing to do with "Moral Superiority" it has to do with children being used as sex objects and abused. Even if you put "Religious Beliefs" in front of it, it is still a crime.

Are you sure? I thought that State of NY v. David Berkowitz decision stated for once and for all that if you do something for religious reasons its awwwwwwwright?

[nightwng2000]

But we're talking about a real life raid, or at least you were. The kids being married were 16 and under, according to all the articles I could find with Google, the raid began when a 16 year old called police about being abused and said she had a kid at 15.

Sure, polygamy on it's own wouldn't be all that bad but that's not what we're talking about, we're talking about a Real Life situation where Real minors were being "married against their will" to men 2x their age. I suppose I could take your tactics and mention Aushwitz then say "omg what's so wrong about taking people with no jobs and giving them jobs in a camp envirnoment where they are supervised so noone is able to come to harm and given excellent medical care?!" sure, a labor camp COULD be run like that, but the actual thing that exists IRL is quite a different manner.

Need I remind you that this wonderland of child rape was also started by Warren Jeffs, so it more than likely had thousands of guns and operated in the same way as his other camps.

One wouldn't have to bring up Aushwitz to cloudy the argument.

In Bowling for Columbine, it was shown where welfare recipients were forced to go to jobs that paid little to nothing, still facing the risk of being kicked out of their homes, losing their children, and other abuses. All while someone else makes lots of money for the cheap labor. But how many people actually condemned the bastard (Dick Clark) who was benefiting from this cheap slave labor?

Sixteen is the legal age of marriage, with a Parent's consent.

Nor is there a law against religious arranged marriages.

I also note that there were over 400 children in this family. 1 claimed abuse. So the entire child population must be abused? Let's also remember that the supposed reporting child has yet to be identified. For all we know, the accusation may actually be false and made by opponents to their belief system just to cause this sort of event.

Also, would you be as supportive if the government took your own child away, even for a short time, and left the child in the care of someone who had radically different personal and/or religious views than your own? Beliefs and views which they exposed the child to while they had you child? Moreover, telling your child that your beliefs were evil and bad and that you had been raising them in the wrong way?

And, again, it's merely a different point of view on the age issue. What you preceive as happening may have been told to you by opposing believers, but it may not be entirely true. While some may marry, that does not necessarily mean a sexual relationship. After all, how often have you told opponents that kids who are taught about sex in school don't necessarily have sex after having the knowledge?

Having different beliefs is one thing. But using force to change their beliefs is something else entirely.

[Hannah]

One wouldn't have to bring up Aushwitz to cloudy the argument.

In Bowling for Columbine, it was shown where welfare recipients were forced to go to jobs that paid little to nothing, still facing the risk of being kicked out of their homes, losing their children, and other abuses. All while someone else makes lots of money for the cheap labor. But how many people actually condemned the bastard (Dick Clark) who was benefiting from this cheap slave labor?

Sixteen is the legal age of marriage, with a Parent's consent.

Nor is there a law against religious arranged marriages.

I also note that there were over 400 children in this family. 1 claimed abuse. So the entire child population must be abused? Let's also remember that the supposed reporting child has yet to be identified. For all we know, the accusation may actually be false and made by opponents to their belief system just to cause this sort of event.

Also, would you be as supportive if the government took your own child away, even for a short time, and left the child in the care of someone who had radically different personal and/or religious views than your own? Beliefs and views which they exposed the child to while they had you child? Moreover, telling your child that your beliefs were evil and bad and that you had been raising them in the wrong way?

And, again, it's merely a different point of view on the age issue. What you preceive as happening may have been told to you by opposing believers, but it may not be entirely true. While some may marry, that does not necessarily mean a sexual relationship. After all, how often have you told opponents that kids who are taught about sex in school don't necessarily have sex after having the knowledge?

Having different beliefs is one thing. But using force to change their beliefs is something else entirely.

To the best of my knowledge, most branches of Christianity do not recognize a marriage until it is consummated, and these guys do not appear to be an exception.

[nightwng2000]

So you would rather have the government give the kids back so they can be married off at 14 to 45 year old men and be treated as nothing but sex objects? I am sorry in this case the government has every right to step in seeing as how that falls under child rape and molestation laws.

The polygamist sects are filled with nothing but pedos who love to control women and rape little girls. They brainwash the kids into thinking if the believe anything other than what Warren Jeff's or their sect leader says, they will burn in hell for all eternity.

It has nothing to do with "Moral Superiority" it has to do with children being used as sex objects and abused. Even if you put "Religious Beliefs" in front of it, it is still a crime.

Except that there is no factual evidence beyond claiming they are polygamists and therefore must be evil to back up the raid.

The alleged accusing 16 year has not come forward. Your smoke screen of of labeling them as using girls as sex objects is as misleading as claiming homosexuals are all pedophiles.

Are you ready to accept being labelled "morally inferior" because those in charge at any given moment will decide that any particular belief of yours makes you a danger to children? Your strong beliefs and arrogance won't save you if you are deemed to have unacceptable belifs.

In fact, are you ready to go to war with other countries whose religions you don't approve of? There have been plenty of acts in the name of religion over the last year alone. And do you know what I'm told when I speak against those beliefs? It's THEIR beliefs, not mine and I have no Right to deny them their religious beliefs.

Or is only ok if it's US citizens or only ok if we can win or just ok sometimes but not all the time?

[nightwng2000]

To the best of my knowledge, most branches of Christianity do not recognize a marriage until it is consummated, and these guys do not appear to be an exception.

Christianity is just way too darn diverse these days. Even the most distant, out there, branch can still be called Christian. Some barely stick to the Christian tree.I'm beginning to think that they are afraid to seperate entirely because they think even vaguely being labeled "Christian" is some sort of talisman of protection.

[Demontestament]

Except that there is no factual evidence beyond claiming they are polygamists and therefore must be evil to back up the raid.

The alleged accusing 16 year has not come forward. Your smoke screen of of labeling them as using girls as sex objects is as misleading as claiming homosexuals are all pedophiles.

Are you ready to accept being labelled "morally inferior" because those in charge at any given moment will decide that any particular belief of yours makes you a danger to children? Your strong beliefs and arrogance won't save you if you are deemed to have unacceptable belifs.

In fact, are you ready to go to war with other countries whose religions you don't approve of? There have been plenty of acts in the name of religion over the last year alone. And do you know what I'm told when I speak against those beliefs? It's THEIR beliefs, not mine and I have no Right to deny them their religious beliefs.

Or is only ok if it's US citizens or only ok if we can win or just ok sometimes but not all the time?

Well lucky for me I don't approve of any organized religion, nor do I approve of any acts done in the name of said religion. I have no problem if a guy wants to subject himself to a deeper layer of hell by having one wife but when the wife in question is a 16 year old who was force into it and more than likely raped to consummate the marriage that is a different ball park. Lets not forget that this sect belongs to Warren Jeffs, you know the guy in prison right now for his part in the rape of a 14 year old girl. A man who has time and time again told young girls if they do not give themselves to their husband they will burn in hell. The man who stock piled weapons at his compounds and even banished any males who stood between his decisions to marry a girl off to some sicko who wanted her.

If this was just some normal middle of nowhere sect who allowed men to have nine wives that would be fine by me. It is just the forcing a girl to marry a man 3 times her age because "Uncle Warren said so". And if one 16 year old cries rape and abuse you better believe that the government will swoop in and remove the other children from potential harm. It is the same thing they do when some sicko rapes his daughter, protective services remove the rest of the children from the house to prevent harm.

Yes the law states that 16 is legal age for marriage with parental consent, but what if the girl doesn't consent to the marriage. What if she doesn't want to marry someone far older than her? Well in this area where women are property her wants fall on deaf ears. Once again this is a sect of followers of Warren Jeffs. A man who made people disappear if they did not agree with what he said.

[nightwng2000]

Well lucky for me I don't approve of any organized religion, nor do I approve of any acts done in the name of said religion. I have no problem if a guy wants to subject himself to a deeper layer of hell by having one wife but when the wife in question is a 16 year old who was force into it and more than likely raped to consummate the marriage that is a different ball park. Lets not forget that this sect belongs to Warren Jeffs, you know the guy in prison right now for his part in the rape of a 14 year old girl. A man who has time and time again told young girls if they do not give themselves to their husband they will burn in hell. The man who stock piled weapons at his compounds and even banished any males who stood between his decisions to marry a girl off to some sicko who wanted her.

If this was just some normal middle of nowhere sect who allowed men to have nine wives that would be fine by me. It is just the forcing a girl to marry a man 3 times her age because "Uncle Warren said so". And if one 16 year old cries rape and abuse you better believe that the government will swoop in and remove the other children from potential harm. It is the same thing they do when some sicko rapes his daughter, protective services remove the rest of the children from the house to prevent harm.

Yes the law states that 16 is legal age for marriage with parental consent, but what if the girl doesn't consent to the marriage. What if she doesn't want to marry someone far older than her? Well in this area where women are property her wants fall on deaf ears. Once again this is a sect of followers of Warren Jeffs. A man who made people disappear if they did not agree with what he said.

Not having a religion could easily be just as dangerous to the "morally superior" authorities in charge. Just because we don't follow a religion doesn't mean we are safe.

"...and more than likely raped ..."

No factual evidence other than it helps to make your argument SOUND good. But, in the end, it's just as valid as pointing a finger at a guy and saying "Look! A homosexual! Watch out! He's likely to be a pedophile!"

And the argument of a link to the founder of the group is just as weak. While there are times that we feel we can say that everyone in a particular church has exactly the same beliefs, that isn't always true.

[Thefremen]

Eh, Nightwing's arguements have turned me. I really don't care if children are forced into marriages or not. It's none of my business if people want to practice a different type of religion. I mean, if God asks someone to sacrifice their son, who am I to judge. If God asks someone to marry their 15 year old cousin against their will, who am I to argue?

Anyways, I'll gladly say "told you so" when the 16 year old who originally called turns up dead. Also, the arguement that parents can consent to a 16 yr old being married doesn't hold any water since these people aren't actually getting legally married, just being married in the eyes of the cult.

[nightwng2000]

Eh, Nightwing's arguements have turned me. I really don't care if children are forced into marriages or not. It's none of my business if people want to practice a different type of religion. I mean, if God asks someone to sacrifice their son, who am I to judge. If God asks someone to marry their 15 year old cousin against their will, who am I to argue?

Anyways, I'll gladly say "told you so" when the 16 year old who originally called turns up dead. Also, the arguement that parents can consent to a 16 yr old being married doesn't hold any water since these people aren't actually getting legally married, just being married in the eyes of the cult.

Or perhaps you're correct. Perhaps we should invade every country that doesn't agree with our religious or even personal beliefs.

Caning for vandalism? Nuke 'em.

Execute for allowing a teddy bear to be named for a religious icon? Nuke 'em.

Royal arraigned marriages when the proposed couple zare kids? Nuke 'em. (So much for the UK.)

Hey, supposedly the US is a Christian majority! Non-Chrisitans: arrested, have children removed from custody, and branded a heretic. And the same if you ain't the "right kind" of Christian.

Oh, and hey, if you're getting married, but it ain't recognized by the state, then it must be a crime punishable by waterboarding.

Papers! Papers! Is you the "Right Kind of Christian" or is you "one uh dem"!

Oh, BTW, relationship is also inconsistant in the law. First cousins can marry in some states. In others, any cousins but First cousins.

http://www.tedpack.org/cuzdate.html

"OMG! A 16 year old turned up dead! It must be her!"

That's still not evidence of the other 400 kids being abused. No more so than it being evidence that the Parents of those children being guilty of abusing those children or anyone else's children.

I'm not interested in saying "I told you so". Even if it turns out the alleged 16 year old either didn't exist at all or was actually an adult faking claims because they opposed the sect's beliefs. Even if she's real, it doesn't make all the other Parents guilty and all the other children abuse victims.

[Thefremen]

Or perhaps you're correct. Perhaps we should invade every country that doesn't agree with our religious or even personal beliefs.

Caning for vandalism? Nuke 'em.

Execute for allowing a teddy bear to be named for a religious icon? Nuke 'em.

Royal arraigned marriages when the proposed couple zare kids? Nuke 'em. (So much for the UK.)

Hey, supposedly the US is a Christian majority! Non-Chrisitans: arrested, have children removed from custody, and branded a heretic. And the same if you ain't the "right kind" of Christian.

Oh, and hey, if you're getting married, but it ain't recognized by the state, then it must be a crime punishable by waterboarding.

Papers! Papers! Is you the "Right Kind of Christian" or is you "one uh dem"!

Oh, BTW, relationship is also inconsistant in the law. First cousins can marry in some states. In others, any cousins but First cousins.

http://www.tedpack.org/cuzdate.html

"OMG! A 16 year old turned up dead! It must be her!"

That's still not evidence of the other 400 kids being abused. No more so than it being evidence that the Parents of those children being guilty of abusing those children or anyone else's children.

I'm not interested in saying "I told you so". Even if it turns out the alleged 16 year old either didn't exist at all or was actually an adult faking claims because they opposed the sect's beliefs. Even if she's real, it doesn't make all the other Parents guilty and all the other children abuse victims.

Even if the other children are abuse victims?

[Brokenscope]

The FDLS has some rather concerning practices.

Brain Washing: many people who have left or "escaped" the FLDS have claimed this. I'm inclined to believe that not all of the are lying.
Excommunication of younger males to free up women for the older men.


All evidence against the church that points to abuse is circumstantial. They are very good at keeping it that way.

The police on the other hand are idiotic, and chances are ruined any chance of building a case against them during the next few years. Any children who might be abused during the next few years will never consider calling the outside world for help. If anything they have probably reinforced the churches teaching about the outside world and will give them more talking points during there next big sermon.

Society has drawn a line on how a parent may treat their child. However that line resembles a Pollock painting due to the way child welfare is handled in this country. It becomes an issue of parental rights vs essentially children's rights.

There is a balance that has to be found. That balance point depends on what you believe government should be responsible for. Is the government responsible for ensuring the basic welfare of all citizens, or is the government supposed to prevent people inside its borders from harming each other or violating the rights of others.

Where does it stop being "parenting" and become "abuse"?

[nightwng2000]

Even if the other children are abuse victims?

But the claim was that only the alleged 16 year old was abused. There was no claim the others were. Speculation. Opinion. Theory. All based on the belief that everyone who is a member of the overall religion must therefore be abusing their children.

And even the initial accusation can't be proven because the alleged accuser hasn't appeared. They may not even exist. It might have made sense to seek out the 16 year old first. But, instead, the authorities threw a net over the entire group with no evidence to back up their reasoning.

[nightwng2000]

The FDLS has some rather concerning practices.
Brain Washing: many people who have left or "escaped" the FLDS have claimed this. I'm inclined to believe that not all of the are lying.
Excommunication of younger males to free up women for the older men.
All evidence against the church that points to abuse is circumstantial. They are very good at keeping it that way.

The police on the other hand are idiotic, and chances are ruined any chance of building a case against them during the next few years. Any children who might be abused during the next few years will never consider calling the outside world for help. If anything they have probably reinforced the churches teaching about the outside world and will give them more talking points during there next big sermon.

Society has drawn a line on how a parent may treat their child. However that line resembles a Pollock painting due to the way child welfare is handled in this country. It becomes an issue of parental rights vs essentially children's rights.

There is a balance that has to be found. That balance point depends on what you believe government should be responsible for. Is the government responsible for ensuring the basic welfare of all citizens, or is the government supposed to prevent people inside its borders from harming each other or violating the rights of others.

Where does it stop being "parenting" and become "abuse"?

Unfortunately that, too, is another inconsistancy throughout the legal system.

While child welfare organizations may have set policies, the personal and/or religious beliefs of employees are still going to play a part. And each individual may treat each case differently to the point where we'll here "but so-n-so was allowed to do so-n-so! Why are we in trouble?".

[nightwng2000]

Also, the arguement that parents can consent to a 16 yr old being married doesn't hold any water since these people aren't actually getting legally married, just being married in the eyes of the cult.


Also, on the note of them not actually getting legally married but rather just in the eyes of their religion:

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695271553,00.html


Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott is hinting at the possibility of bigamy prosecutions here. In national TV interviews, Abbott said some women from the FLDS Church's Eldorado ranch, who have spoken to news reporters, appeared to have admitted to bigamy.


If they aren't legally married to more than one person, and they knowingly are religiously married to more than one person, how can it either be bigamy or fraud?

Frankly, the entire article reads like "we don't like their beliefs, ours are better, so we're going to persecute, if not prosecute, them for not holding the state Approved beliefs."

A great deal of the government's argument comes down to "guilt by association".

[steelcobra]

But the claim was that only the alleged 16 year old was abused. There was no claim the others were. Speculation. Opinion. Theory. All based on the belief that everyone who is a member of the overall religion must therefore be abusing their children.

And even the initial accusation can't be proven because the alleged accuser hasn't appeared. They may not even exist. It might have made sense to seek out the 16 year old first. But, instead, the authorities threw a net over the entire group with no evidence to back up their reasoning.

Unfortunately that, too, is another inconsistancy throughout the legal system.

While child welfare organizations may have set policies, the personal and/or religious beliefs of employees are still going to play a part. And each individual may treat each case differently to the point where we'll here "but so-n-so was allowed to do so-n-so! Why are we in trouble?".

Also, on the note of them not actually getting legally married but rather just in the eyes of their religion:

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695271553,00.html



If they aren't legally married to more than one person, and they knowingly are religiously married to more than one person, how can it either be bigamy or fraud?

Frankly, the entire article reads like "we don't like their beliefs, ours are better, so we're going to persecute, if not prosecute, them for not holding the state Approved beliefs."

A great deal of the government's argument comes down to "guilt by association".
I'll let someone with more information fill you in:
http://possummomma.blogspot.com/2008/04/yfz-compound-raid.html
It's finally happened. The State of Texas has done what Arizona and Utah should've done years ago. They've listened to the cries of child abuse coming from inside the heart of the FLDS and responded.

The YFZ Ranch (Yearning for Zion) is just outside of El Dorado, TX. The land was purchased back in the 90's under the guise of being used as a hunting retreat by Warren Jeff's family. A few years ago, people started disappearing from the strip of land on the Arizona/Utah border formerly known as "Short Creek" (made up of the cities Hilldale, Utah and Colorado City, Arizona). Shortly after these disappearances, a pilot noticed some development occurring on the Texas prairie. At first, a few homes were built and it was thought that they could've been hunting lodges (for their size was immense). But, soon after, a granite structure began to appear on the horizon. To those who knew anything about the FLDS, it resembled a temple and the message boards went aflutter. Warren Jeffs, the man who wrestled power in the 80s...the man who pulled every FLDS child under his jurisdiction out of school, the man who banished books, radios, television, and contact with outsiders...this man who lectured on the sanctity of a little known LDS ritual of blood atonement now had the temple in which blood atonement becomes a sacrament. Those of us who knew the FLDS knew that dark days were around the corner. But, the rest of the world kept ticking. The FYZ Ranch eventually created their own sanitation system, water treatment facilities, gardens, livestock, security towers, and power generator. The number of people leaving Short Creek increased right along with the growing population of FYZ. Families were removed in the dead of night. Wives taken from husbands and given to knew husbands on the FYZ compound. And, all the while, those of us who knew drew comparisons between David Koresh and Jeffs. It was almost as if Jeffs took a play straight out of the Branch Davidian play book. Countless times, I've looked at my husband and said, "If people keep ignoring that place, there's going to be a stand-off and you're going to lose more children than you ever did in Waco." I firmly believed that that was the way things were headed. And, maybe if Jeffs hadn't been arrested, that's what we would have seen.

Still, it emerged that a child has called 911, from the compound. No small action since, as far as I was aware, there were no land line phones in the FYZ compound. How did this child get to a land line phone that would trace back to the FYZ compound? Or, did she use a cell phone? I don't know. Maybe we'll never know? And, so...the raid began. Woman were taken from the FYZ compound on buses from a local baptist church. And, on the Texas Polygamy blog (frequented by Creekers' and FLDS), the uproar was "Can you believe that they took these faithful people on a baptist bus?" No, really! If you tried to suggest that the bus was the least of the problems and that it was about time someone rescued those children, then you'd hear things like, "It's an honor to be a polygamous wife and have a baby at 13." Whisky Tango Foxtrot?!!!

The polygamous of this country are up in arms. They're comparing this to the Branch Davidian raid. But, really... they've been through this before. In the fifties, Governor Pile of Arizona raided Short Creek. The women and children were bused to Phoenix and housed in barracks. The men were charged with unlawful cohabitation and served jail time. But, when their time was up... back they went. And, no one blinked an eye. In fact, after the raid, people called for the immediate dismissal of the man who ordered it and made emotional appeals regarding the pictures of children being taken from their fathers. Americans closed their eyes on polygamy.

We pretended to care about those children instead of actually caring for them. Sure! It's heart-wrenching to watch a toddler scream for her father or mother as that father is led away in handcuffs. But, I guarantee you it's ten times more heart wrenching to see a thirteen year old girl beg not to be married to a fifty year old man and watch her polygamous father hand her over like chattel. It's twenty times more heartbreaking to watch a mother choose between getting out of the compound or staying with her children. The children become the property of the father and his eternal family at birth...mothers are granted few rights among the FLDS. It's devastating to watch girls as young as twelve be raped and beaten and see boys as young as twelve chased out of the compound because they're competition for the pretty girls. And, yet... most Americans didn't even know this place existed. They had no clue that there was a group much more insidious than conservative Islam right in their own backyard.

This group isn't dangerous because they choose to practice polygamy. I, actually, have no problem with polygyny (one husband, multiple wives) or even one wife and multiple husbands. If three consenting adults decide they want to live together and create a family (unorthodox though it might seem), then I say more power to them. But, the moment you marry CHILDREN to OLD MEN and DEMAND that CHILDREN enter into polygamy, then you've lost any and all right to live your unorthodox lifestyle. The moment you use threats of hell or death or excommunication to get a fourteen year old to sleep with a seventy year old, you've crossed the boundaries of human decency. Now, some will say that that is what these girls want. To that I say, "Bull****!" Humans have a tendency to be attracted to those within their age group - it's a survival tool. If you have sex with the newest model, who attracts you physically, then you're likely getting healthy sperm/DNA. I have never ever known a teen age girl who says, "You know...I dreamed of marrying a man as old as my father." That's not saying these girls haven't been brainwashed or programmed to accept this inevitability. I know they have. But, coercion is not consent. Consensual sex between a twelve year old and a fifty year old is not consensual. These girls have been told that these men hold the key to their eternal salvation. They've been told that to deny these marriages is a direct affront to God and their prophet. You don't get to claim ecclesiastic supremacy and priesthood blessings and then suggest that these girls could've walked away. It's too much like a Catholic pedophile priest claiming that the children they abuse could've told on them. The deck is stacked against the child.

There have been interviews, now, with some of the caregivers tapped to help care for the hundreds of children that have now been removed from the YFZ Ranch. They talk of how children don't know what Crayola Crayons are. They talk of seeing 13 year old girls cry for a baby...only it's not their sibling: it's their child! One custodial guardian said that she took a girl in who started whimpering three hours after she was placed with her. The woman tried to comfort the girl. The girl sat stoically as breast milk started to stain the front of her dress. In an effort to try to hide the fact that she'd born a child, she denied being the child's mother and had handed the baby to a sister wife. Again I'll say...WHAT THE ****!?

And, the stories get worse every time I turn on the television to a point where I can't watch any more. Just as much as anyone, those who dismissed the FLDS as "Just another religion..." are responsible for the abuses that were allowed. There have been reports of child abuse for years. And, we knew that men were shuffling girls around for marriage. We knew that they were in violation of the Mann Act. But, somehow... the abuses and marriages continued. We turned our eyes to Iraq and radical Islam while we ignored the injustice in our own back yard. It's time for that to end.

This isn't about religion or religious freedom. It's about rape. It's about child neglect and abuse. And, it's time to end it.

[nightwng2000]

I'll let someone with more information fill you in:
http://possummomma.blogspot.com/2008/04/yfz-compound-raid.html

But they DON'T have more information. They have opinion, speculation, theory, and bias.

It's the same type of argument that a religious individual would make against a non-religious individual. "You don't believe in my God, so you must be abusing your child."

Even that blog article admits that it's difficult to understand how the alleged accuser got their hands on a phone to make the accusation. Even so, the State's "witness" doesn't exist until they step forward and are identified to the authorities, give a deposition, present evidence that can be used to find someone guilty, and follow through with that specific incident.

The government cannot arbitrarily storm into someone's home, claim abuse is occuring, then say "well, we don't actually have evidence. We'll have to examine the kids for abuse and THEN make a case. But in the meantime, your kids will be taken away and exposed to things you don't want them exposed to and we'll publically accuse you of abuse." Well, that's not how the legal system is SUPPOSED to work, but it does anyway.

Nevertheless, a blog post by someone who doesn't share the group's religious beliefs isn't evidence. Even the blogger admitted that they government should basically storm the religious groups because they are not a part of the right kind of religious believers.

It's about as valid as evidence as a WBC article on homosexuality.

[steelcobra]

But they DON'T have more information. They have opinion, speculation, theory, and bias.

It's the same type of argument that a religious individual would make against a non-religious individual. "You don't believe in my God, so you must be abusing your child."

Even that blog article admits that it's difficult to understand how the alleged accuser got their hands on a phone to make the accusation. Even so, the State's "witness" doesn't exist until they step forward and are identified to the authorities, give a deposition, present evidence that can be used to find someone guilty, and follow through with that specific incident.

The government cannot arbitrarily storm into someone's home, claim abuse is occuring, then say "well, we don't actually have evidence. We'll have to examine the kids for abuse and THEN make a case. But in the meantime, your kids will be taken away and exposed to things you don't want them exposed to and we'll publically accuse you of abuse." Well, that's not how the legal system is SUPPOSED to work, but it does anyway.

Nevertheless, a blog post by someone who doesn't share the group's religious beliefs isn't evidence. Even the blogger admitted that they government should basically storm the religious groups because they are not a part of the right kind of religious believers.

It's about as valid as evidence as a WBC article on homosexuality.

Why the hell are you defending a group that marries 12 year old girls to 70 year old men, and tells them that to refuse is to go to hell?

[nightwng2000]

Why the hell are you defending a group that marries 12 year old girls to 70 year old men, and tells them that to refuse is to go to hell?

I'm not defending their beliefs.

I'm defending their Right to have beliefs that are not mine or yours.

I'd defend your Right to have beliefs that were not mine or theirs.

I'd defend my Right to have beliefs that were not yours or theirs.

I wouldn't want to be a part of their religious beliefs.

I wouldn't want to be a part of the WBC.

I wouldn't want to be a part of a religion that kills people because someone lets a kid name a Teddy Bear after their religious icon.

I wouldn't want to be a part of a religion or other organization that has a belief that is contrary to my own beliefs.

And, as Parent to my own child, I have the Right not to let my child be exposed to those things either.

It doesn't make my beliefs "morally superior" or "morally inferior" to them. It just makes my beliefs DIFFERENT than theirs.

As such, I do not now, nor ever shall have, the Right to dictate my own personal beliefs upon others. I don't have the Right to harrass them, use the legal system to abuse them, or deny them or their children the Right to believe what they want to believe.

I can find their (all the individual groups I've mentioned) horrible and obscene from my own viewpoint. But does that truly grant me the Right to place myself as legally "morally superior" over others? What prevents their Right to do the same to me or others?

Yes, I recognize that some individuals have created religious factions, not because they actually believe in the religion, but rather because they want it as some sort of protection for some of their actions. Nevertheless, it falls under the argument of deciding whose religion is valid, and therefore approved, by the state.

I suppose one problem is that we have granted various immunities to various religions. But we don't remain consistant.

[KN]

This is what happens when you try to couple freedom with LETS ALL BE FRIENDS~

A healthy free society is not to have a place for intolerance and acts that are hazardous to unwilling third parties. If they do, this society will collapse.

[Brokenscope]

Why the hell are you defending a group that marries 12 year old girls to 70 year old men, and tells them that to refuse is to go to hell?

Hes isn't, hes defending due process, and some of the more basic tenants of our legal system. Hes also defending some of the more basic rights of the constitution. Most of which the police, in their rush to protect the children, have been running roughshod over.

This is going to be a debacle for someone, what ever the outcome.

[BlackIce, British Commie]

Damn this forum. Dammit to hell.

I agree with Nightwng.

[nightwng2000]

Hes isn't, hes defending due process, and some of the more basic tenants of our legal system. Hes also defending some of the more basic rights of the constitution. Most of which the police, in their rush to protect the children, have been running roughshod over.

This is going to be a debacle for someone, what ever the outcome.

From reading the articles regarding the courtroom issues, it's already a nasty mess.

[Thefremen]

Hes isn't, hes defending due process, and some of the more basic tenants of our legal system. Hes also defending some of the more basic rights of the constitution. Most of which the police, in their rush to protect the children, have been running roughshod over.

This is going to be a debacle for someone, what ever the outcome.

Due process doesn't count for **** for religious whackos who are Muslim, why should it count for religious whackos who are Christian?

[nightwng2000]

Due process doesn't count for **** for religious whackos who are Muslim, why should it count for religious whackos who are Christian?

It should count for everyone.

It should have counted for a great many historical violations, but the government decided it was "justified" to violate those rules a great many times. They used all sorts of fear to "justify" violating the Rights of others.

It is, in fact, rather ironic really. The claims that many of the members are afraid to stand up and report abuse. So what does the government do? It uses the argument of fear to justify violating the Rights of the members.

Fear to keep control over the members.
Fear to justify taking control over the members.

Wonderful tool fear is, eh?

[penarestel]

It should count for everyone.

It should have counted for a great many historical violations, but the government decided it was "justified" to violate those rules a great many times. They used all sorts of fear to "justify" violating the Rights of others.

It is, in fact, rather ironic really. The claims that many of the members are afraid to stand up and report abuse. So what does the government do? It uses the argument of fear to justify violating the Rights of the members.

Fear to keep control over the members.
Fear to justify taking control over the members.

Wonderful tool fear is, eh?

Holy ****! At first I just thought you were being an asshole, but now I agree with you.

What the hell just happened here?

[BlackIce, British Commie]

Holy ****! At first I just thought you were being an asshole, but now I agree with you.

What the hell just happened here?

I tell you, it's the magical Aura of Tolerance this forum gives off Dammit.

How do we usually deal with the people who are right?

[MUTANT SPUD]

@ Nightwing2000.
You shouldn't be afraid to declare that your beliefs and moral code are superior to some other groups, they clearly are, what makes the "American Way" for want of a better term a superior system is its tolerance of other beliefs, I emphasise the word tolerance not acceptance. If a group decides to take a different path to the majority of society they should be called on to justify their position if that position is found to be unsound in some way, everybody else has to do it so should religious groups. The state should be relentlessly pressuring the sect leaders to prove to the rest of society that nothing untoward is going on in their ranks and demanding access to the children, not storming their homes on some flimsy pretext and hauling the kids away, the sect leaders would soon clean up their act if they were being harassed round the clock by lawyers, social workers and police.
An identical scenario is being played out in Australia's remote Aboriginal communities, there were allegations, and actual proven cases of horrific child sexual abuse so the government just said, enough is enough and took control of the communities, by all accounts the "Intervention" as its called has been beneficial. All Aboriginal children are being given health checks, more police are being assigned to the towns, alchohol, drugs and pornography are banned in some towns and parents have their welfare payments delivered in the form of store credit so that they can only spend money on food and essential items. The thinking is that these people are Australian first and Aboriginal second, we respect and tolerate their culture but we don't permit them to abuse children, either for cultural reasons (child brides, keeping of catamites) or due to intoxication and social breakdown. In practice very few children have been removed from their parents but the government agencies have made it clear that they are watching, that there is someone for the kids to turn to if they are in trouble.
Sometimes coercive government powers can be used for the betterment of society.

[Thefremen]

It should count for everyone.

It should have counted for a great many historical violations, but the government decided it was "justified" to violate those rules a great many times. They used all sorts of fear to "justify" violating the Rights of others.

It is, in fact, rather ironic really. The claims that many of the members are afraid to stand up and report abuse. So what does the government do? It uses the argument of fear to justify violating the Rights of the members.

Fear to keep control over the members.
Fear to justify taking control over the members.

Wonderful tool fear is, eh?

GB2 1999. This is the New American Century, Bush is president, Hillary or McCain will be next in line for the throne no matter how the primaries go (lol, the working class actually believe they can vote on that), we will see an expansion on the Patriot Act, not a return to Habeus Corpus or any other rights.

Sorry, but any "camps" "societies" or "gatherings" which the gov't does not approve of will be shut down, its members prosecuted. Deal with it, or go to the camps opening up in 2010.

[MUTANT SPUD]

GB2 1999. This is the New American Century, Bush is president, Hillary or McCain will be next in line for the throne no matter how the primaries go (lol, the working class actually believe they can vote on that), we will see an expansion on the Patriot Act, not a return to Habeus Corpus or any other rights.

Sorry, but any "camps" "societies" or "gatherings" which the gov't does not approve of will be shut down, its members prosecuted. Deal with it, or go to the camps opening up in 2010. Ever heard the album Last Scream Of The Missing Neighbours by Jello Biafra and DOA? Written in the late 80's its eerily prophetic.

[MUTANT SPUD]

Man convicted for staring at woman
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23563930-1702,00.html?from=public_rssAN ITALIAN man was given a suspended jail sentence for staring too intensely at a woman sitting in front of him on a train. EEEP!..as a serial starer at of women I am alarmed at this story, the trick is to look slowly away as they turn towards you, no sudden movements or you fall out of the tree:D

[Hannah]

Man convicted for staring at woman
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23563930-1702,00.html?from=public_rssAN EEEP!..as a serial starer at of women I am alarmed at this story, the trick is to look slowly away as they turn towards you, no sudden movements or you fall out of the tree:D

Given that she was 55 and he was in his 30s, what are the odds that he was even thinking dirty thoughts? Maybe she just had a moustache that he couldn't stop looking at :p

[MUTANT SPUD]

Given that she was 55 and he was in his 30s, what are the odds that he was even thinking dirty thoughts? Maybe she just had a moustache that he couldn't stop looking at :pHehe..there are a lot of hot 55 year old women, especially in Italy. Maybe the guy is one of those weirdo's who just sit and gawp open mouthed at women.... subtle, you have to be subtle.

[Kincyr]

Given that she was 55 and he was in his 30s, what are the odds that he was even thinking dirty thoughts? Maybe she just had a moustache that he couldn't stop looking at :p
ITALIAN man was given a suspended jail sentence for staring too intensely at a woman sitting in front of him on a train.
unless the moustache was on the back of her neck that can't be the case. Maybe there was some weird skin growth like the one I had under my arm...

it was described as a finger:p

[MUTANT SPUD]

unless the moustache was on the back of her neck that can't be the case. Maybe there was some weird skin growth like the one I had under my arm...

it was described as a finger:p Oh yeah I had one of those. The female European under arm is a thing of beauty though, like Bert from Sesame Street's hairdo only in a more intimate location. She possibly had food or a booger on her face, or the back of her neck...you know how sometimes its never the right moment to point that out to somebody...my wife let me sit through a parent/ teacher meeting the other night with a booger in full view.

[penarestel]

Homeless man finds plans for new World Trade Center in street garbage bin (http://www.nypost.com/seven/04182008/news/regionalnews/trashy_wtc_security_106987.htm)

The title really sums it all up.
Frankly, I'm not at all surprised by this.:rolleyes:

[steelcobra]

Nightwng2000: My opinion is that, while everyone is entitled to the freedom to choose however they wish to worship, there is a stopping point that has to be regulated: When those rites trod over the rights of others. FLDS is just as bad as Scientology in this regard. While they don't solicit dues, they force anyone who isn't one of the privileged few men who get to have wives to either a life of servitude and cranking out babies from as young as 12 until they die, or chase them out if they are young boys. And all of this is reinforced by the fact that the religion they believe fervently tells them if they don't take it, they will go to hell, as that's the only way to get to heaven.

The problem I have is that there is plenty of evidence, as much as from CO$, from those who escaped the ranch about what goes on there, and yet it has been more thoroughly ignored. Even in a previous raid they simply let everyone go back. Why do we ignore this cult site? We have already arrested their mastermind, Warren Jeffs. What good does it do to let this cycle continue, where a woman is married and starts having babies with 8 other wives before her body can handle the stress, then tells her own daughters they have to marry a man 60 years their elder or they go to hell?

Again I say: how can you defend this rampant violation of both human rights and American law?

[MUTANT SPUD]

Sect children to undergo genetic testing
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23564493-23109,00.html
How are they going to take these samples?, by force I suppose.
If they'd just gone and occupied the ranch and been a bit gentler they'd probably have all this info.

[nightwng2000]

Nightwng2000: My opinion is that, while everyone is entitled to the freedom to choose however they wish to worship, there is a stopping point that has to be regulated: When those rites trod over the rights of others. FLDS is just as bad as Scientology in this regard. While they don't solicit dues, they force anyone who isn't one of the privileged few men who get to have wives to either a life of servitude and cranking out babies from as young as 12 until they die, or chase them out if they are young boys. And all of this is reinforced by the fact that the religion they believe fervently tells them if they don't take it, they will go to hell, as that's the only way to get to heaven.

The problem I have is that there is plenty of evidence, as much as from CO$, from those who escaped the ranch about what goes on there, and yet it has been more thoroughly ignored. Even in a previous raid they simply let everyone go back. Why do we ignore this cult site? We have already arrested their mastermind, Warren Jeffs. What good does it do to let this cycle continue, where a woman is married and starts having babies with 8 other wives before her body can handle the stress, then tells her own daughters they have to marry a man 60 years their elder or they go to hell?

Again I say: how can you defend this rampant violation of both human rights and American law?

The same as I defend the Right of a religion to cut their male children's genitals without the child's permission.

The same as I defend the Right of a religion to deny various medical treatments because of their religious beliefs.

The same as I defend the Right of a religion to raise their children with the ideals of bigotry and hate.

The same as I defend the Right of a religion to limit educational opportunities to their children.

The same as I defend the Right of a religion to promote Corporal Punishment.

And did I mention the Teddy Bear?

[nightwng2000]

Homeless man finds plans for new World Trade Center in street garbage bin (http://www.nypost.com/seven/04182008/news/regionalnews/trashy_wtc_security_106987.htm)

The title really sums it all up.
Frankly, I'm not at all surprised by this.:rolleyes:

Is this the second time they were found or a reprint of an old story? I saw the tag line yesterday but I know a similar report was made a month or two ago.

[KN]

The same as I defend the Right of a religion to cut their male children's genitals without the child's permission.

The same as I defend the Right of a religion to deny various medical treatments because of their religious beliefs.

The same as I defend the Right of a religion to raise their children with the ideals of bigotry and hate.

The same as I defend the Right of a religion to limit educational opportunities to their children.

The same as I defend the Right of a religion to promote Corporal Punishment.

And did I mention the Teddy Bear?

As in NOT, right?

Right? :(

[penarestel]

Is this the second time they were found or a reprint of an old story? I saw the tag line yesterday but I know a similar report was made a month or two ago.

I don't quite know. This is the first I've heard of it.

[nightwng2000]

As in NOT, right?

Right? :(

Not exactly clear on what you're asking.

But, I don't intend to sit back and wait for the laser scope of morality to find its way to my home and for some "moral supremecist" to storm into my home, or worse send government paid authorities to storm into my home, and deem that which I use to raise my son by and by which I live by to be "the wrong kind of morality".

I am not homosexual (include bisexual in that term). To my knowledge, my son isn't either.
But that doesn't mean I won't yell and scream about the legal Rights of homosexuals. That doesn't mean I won't argue that in a true neutral legal system, legally recognized marriages should be deaf dumb and blind to who is being married or how many are being married.

At the very same time, I will argue against government enforcement of specific religions to be required to accept homosexual religious marriages.

The same as I would argue against government enforcement of specific religions to be required NOT to accept homosexual religious marriages.

Now, how far is too far in my brain mushing, ****ed up world?

Within the population of a specific religion, if the leaders say that to remain in their religious community, a person believing themselves to be homosexual must undergo special psychiatrict counseling to make them heterosexual. As much as I can argue against such a practice, I do not have the Right to tell them that they don't have the Right to treat homosexuals that way.

What if instead of counseling, it were more physical? Shock therapy, daily whippings, and so forth? If all these indiividuals are within that same religious community, as horrid as it may be to me and my own beliefs, I can not and will not demand that the government deem their practices "inferior" morally and therefore must be stormed and disbanded. I will certainly speak against the practice. But I wouldn't force them to change.

Now, how about something along the lines of "purification through sacrifice"? Quite frankly, I wouldn't put the likes of Fred Phelps and the WBC to be above instituting such a practice if they thought they could get away with it. Again, we're talking about all the individuals within the exact same religious community. We all have no doubt that the government will intervene.

While the law has been a little shaky on animal sacrifice, it typically comes out against human sacrifice, even if the sacrifice is "willing". But in a place where Freedom of Religion is also a factor, I actually, and horribly, see an inconsistancy in those two stances. "You have the Right to practice your religious beliefs however you want.... except where we decide our beliefs are superior."

Now, someone of a particular religion grabbing a homosexual person off the street who doesn't share the same religious beliefs clearly is a violation of that victim's Freedom of Religion.

Nor is it any more Right for any one of us to grab a member of that specific religious community off the street and try to teach them "the errors of their ways". Typically, that's called "deprogramming". But it is, in fact, a misleading term. You don't remove all their beliefs and leave this big honking hole in their reality. So, you have to fill it up with something. And usually, that's something you "approve" of over their old beliefs. Hence, the more appropriate term is "reprogramming" or "violation of their Freedom of Religion".

Now, I used the issue of homosexuality because it's a major religious/political hotbed of controversy and opposing views. But we could fill it in with a great many issues of differences of beliefs.

Now, look at another inconsistancy.
(1) 16 year old girl calls a hotline and says she's being abused. "OMG! She's a member of so-n-so religion! They believe in horribly bad things! All the kids must be abused! Let's save them all!"
(2) Several children over the years report sexual abuse by priests. Reports come out that the higher ups move the priests to other churches. People know but still send their kids to the churches. Where are the authorities in storming the homes of those children to remove them from their Parents because some kids reported being abused so they must all be abused? Where is the demand by authorities that children may not attend church because they may be sexually abused?

Seems to me that some religions rate higher on the scale of fair and due process than others. Despite even close similar acts, ie rape and/or abuse of children, being commited. Oh and you can say the rape/abuse in number 2 wasn't religious in nature. But the cover up by the higher ups....

[Demontestament]

Now, look at another inconsistancy.
(1) 16 year old girl calls a hotline and says she's being abused. "OMG! She's a member of so-n-so religion! They believe in horribly bad things! All the kids must be abused! Let's save them all!"
(2) Several children over the years report sexual abuse by priests. Reports come out that the higher ups move the priests to other churches. People know but still send their kids to the churches. Where are the authorities in storming the homes of those children to remove them from their Parents because some kids reported being abused so they must all be abused? Where is the demand by authorities that children may not attend church because they may be sexually abused?

Seems to me that some religions rate higher on the scale of fair and due process than others. Despite even close similar acts, ie rape and/or abuse of children, being committed. Oh and you can say the rape/abuse in number 2 wasn't religious in nature. But the cover up by the higher ups....

Big difference between what happens at the ranch and the pedo priests. While both are disgusting, at the ranch the girls are pretty much open acces to abuse and rape 24/7 because they live in the compound where it takes place and the parents willingly let it happen because they have been brain washed into thinking they have to or they won't go to heaven.

Now with the priests while just as equally disgusting it is not the same. The parents do not know it is happening until the kid says something and then they act, they are not willingly letting this son/daughter be molested by a priest because if they stand up to them they will go to hell. And a huge majority of the time when the kids tell his parents they no longer attend the church and either leave the religion all together or find another church to go to. The cover up with the higher ups has recently taken a huge blow since the government decided that the higher ups IE Roger Mahoney can be held in contempt if they make up fake church cannon laws to protect the priests.

In my eyes Mahoney needs to face the same charges as Jeffs did, he knowingly moved pedophile priests around to other churches to cover up what was going on. And all that happened is the priest just started his sick little game at the next church. He needs to be charged as an accomplish to rape of numerous children.

[MUTANT SPUD]

Morgue buys forklift truck for obese
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23568402-29277,00.html
Dr Byard agrees obese patients are problematic for pathologists.

"Autopsies have been performed on floors, or with a pathologist leaning from a ladder, or actually standing on the trolley over a body," he wrote in an article in the Journal of Forensic and Legal Medicine. Now there's an aspect of obesity I hadn't considered.

[Hannah]

Morgue buys forklift truck for obese
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23568402-29277,00.html
Now there's an aspect of obesity I hadn't considered.

I've read stories about undertakers needing to get bigger coffins too.

I really really hope I never become obese.

[MUTANT SPUD]

I've read stories about undertakers needing to get bigger coffins too.

I really really hope I never become obese. My sister is enormous, I'm muscular and my brother is as skinny as a twig, fatties can only blame genetics and medical problems up to a certain point, in my sisters case she just eats too much, not junk, just enormous amounts of good food...she's a gourmand I guess..or possibly a glutton.

[Thefremen]

Meanwhile, IRL... (http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/8054486/IRL-has-to-take-advantage-of-Danica's-win)

Oh man, it's like this news trolls on its own. OMG A GIRL WON AT RACING A CAR! Open wheel racing too. Sure, it's not as strenious as NASCAR (less G forces during turns) but I think it's great for her. She's shown a lot of potential and good point standings etc.

Danica Patrick's victory at Twin Ring Motegi represents a zenith that the sport has been unable to reach for quite some time. While the IRL had won over a loyal fan base abroad with their brand of wheel-to-wheel racing, it hadn't been able to make that all-important jump into the consciousness of mainstream America.

[beemoh]

Thread resurrect for video off BoingBoing which is probably relevant:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tICf7MaXyKs

[Kincyr]

this thread needs to be un-stickied