March?

[LegallyBlindGamer]

I think we should organize a Gamers' March to stop censorship in video games. It could start at the LA convention center on the eve of E for All, and end at Capitol hill What do you think of this? I posted it here because I saw no other place for such a proposal.

[Hannah]

I'd rather see an anti-censorship march with no particular emphasis. Sure, censorship in video games is bad, but it's only part of a bigger issue. By focusing only on games, we both alienate a lot of people and appear childish in the eyes of politicians and other public figures.

[LegallyBlindGamer]

Good point. We could stop at the Chinese Theatre, and other entertainment landmarks. Nashville, Dollywood, you name it.With luck, I bet I could get Stuttering Craig and Handsome Tom of Screw Attack fame to join us and cover the march.

[MachShot]

I don't trust any special intrest rally. I belive that a person is smart, but people are stupid. Personaly, I don't think there is any considerable censorship of the Video Game industry. If GTA were banned, then yes thats an issue, but the biggest 'censore' of all video game history whold have to be the game Manhunt 2 getting rated AO, in which a majority of gamers who know about it agree with the rating, just not the fact major retailors and consoles won't allow it.

[Pelor]

Let's see... march or play video games... march, or play video games...

wait a second... from LA to Capitol Hill in DC? Isn't that, like, really far away?

[seductivpancakes]

Gamers are too lazy too march. I rather play game about marching,

[LegallyBlindGamer]

This march isn't just about video games. It's about censorship in general.And about the distance, we'd be making stops in key places in the entertainment industry and in public offices. The "gamers are too lazy" comment is a stereotype that I find offensive. I'm a gamer, and I still have time in my life for other things. Heck, I've got a Tai Chi appointment this afternoon.

[LegallyBlindGamer]

MachShot, this isn't just about censorship It's about gamers' rights.
The only reason I see for Manhunt 2 getting AO is some stuck-up media watchdog group demanded it. If Manhunt 2 is rated AO, then what's to stop the media watchdog groups from demanding that Halo 3 be rated AO? The ESRB is giving them too much power. That's what I have a problem with. This will also discredit Rommey, and maybe get him to stay off the video game issue.

[kurisu7885]

I think a better idea would be to organize an event in the capitol area where all sorts can congregate, game, watch movies, whatever that it entertainment related, and try to make it approachable and accessible.

[LegallyBlindGamer]

That's a great idea! Now all we need is money to help organize it.

[Brokenscope]

Why don't we just take over the net and hold it hostage?

[nightwng2000]

Why don't we just take over the net and hold it hostage?

I thought that's what LaRoucheYouth (the poster) said the LaRouche Youth were going to do?

[Brokenscope]

No I think that was American System.

[TheUnholy]

I said no because I think other things need to be done first. Petitions and boycotts. Of course buying a share of the company and then petitioning or boycotting would make the world of difference. This is when your dealing with retailers and console manufacturers. Politicians I think we should probably march IF they try to pass laws such as the one in New York. But really right now my main concern is ESRB, Big three and Retailers.

I voted yes just as a sign that as gamers something needs to be done before it's too late. Maybe marching is not the best idea. After all I doubt a million of us will turn up to do it to be effective.
Now petitioning and boycotting. These are things gamers have been doing for a long time. And laws are still being written to oust violent video games. Thankfully none have been passed...yet. There will come a time where that will happen. Are you willing to wait for them to be gone before you act?

[MachShot]

This march isn't just about video games. It's about censorship in general.

MachShot, this isn't just about censorship It's about gamers' rights.


Wh-wh-what? Did you just flip over what the main point of the march was in a double post? Is it censorship or gaming rights, pick one because I'm confused.

And is there evidence that MH2 was AO because of a watchdog group? C'mon, its a game who's prequal was banned from nearly half the gaming world. Don't take this as an attack though, I'm just personaly curious as to what grounds these accusations against the ESRB have. It was only 1 of 2 games to get AO because of violence anyway. I'm for creative freedom, but I'll survive if I can't play a game with gratuidous tourture.

[georox]

I think a better idea would be to organize an event in the capitol area where all sorts can congregate, game, watch movies, whatever that it entertainment related, and try to make it approachable and accessible.

Only if you play Troma films.

[LegallyBlindGamer]

http://gamepolitics.com/2007/06/19/wii-mote-prompts-watchdog-groups-demand-that-manhunt-2-be-adults-only/

Did you not notice this article? It shows that a media watchdog group demanded that Manhunt 2 be rated Adults Only. Unless the ESRB releases the video that Take Two sent them, which they won't, thisis the only reasoning for the AO rating that is readily available. I'm sick of the ESRB bending over backwards for media watchdog groups and not defending our constitutional rights.

[Hannah]

http://gamepolitics.com/2007/06/19/wii-mote-prompts-watchdog-groups-demand-that-manhunt-2-be-adults-only/

Did you not notice this article? It shows that a media watchdog group demanded that Manhunt 2 be rated Adults Only. Unless the ESRB releases the video that Take Two sent them, which they won't, thisis the only reasoning for the AO rating that is readily available. I'm sick of the ESRB bending over backwards for media watchdog groups and not defending our constitutional rights.

Um, based on Rockstar's own description of the game (blood, gore, castration, etc.), the AO rating seems to fit. Most people, gamers or otherwise, don't disagree with the rating itself: we merely dislike the fact that an AO rating is equivalent to an outright ban.

P.S. Unless you're a game developer, your constitutional rights don't even enter into the equation. Under neither US nor Canadian law is any person's right to play videogames, violent or otherwise, enshrined.

[MachShot]

http://gamepolitics.com/2007/06/19/wii-mote-prompts-watchdog-groups-demand-that-manhunt-2-be-adults-only/

Did you not notice this article? It shows that a media watchdog group demanded that Manhunt 2 be rated Adults Only. Unless the ESRB releases the video that Take Two sent them, which they won't, this is the only reasoning for the AO rating that is readily available. I'm sick of the ESRB bending over backwards for media watchdog groups and not defending our constitutional rights.

Eh, I have doubts of the 'Commercial Free Childhood's' actual power in the legislative world. And releasing the video would kinda ruin the whole point of giving it an AO rating. The ESRB did so, because the content equals AO standards.

Look at GTA, what detail does that game have in violence. You shoot someone, they fall down, and a fake-looking pool of blood surrounds them. The bodies don't even show the bullet wounds. And after you kill someone, an ambulance shows up and somehow revives the person with CPR.

GTA, before Manhunt, was considered the most violent game ever. Manhunt 2 is leagues beyond GTA. Immense Gore, Brutal Torture, Full and Partial Decapitations and Mutilations. When it comes to violence, GTA is Manhunts' bitch. C'mon, if a lawyer with over 20 years of experience ends up banned from law in several states, suspended multiple times, has his mental sanity legally questioned and is pending on loosing his law license as we speak, then what is this anti-capitalist, wannabe PTA group going to do to the ESRB.

[MachShot]

I think if you buy shares in the company you automatically seem more important to the company and you have more of a say.

The ESRB has a stock? I was unaware that volunteer organizations could have one.

[LegallyBlindGamer]

Um, based on Rockstar's own description of the game (blood, gore, castration, etc.), the AO rating seems to fit. Most people, gamers or otherwise, don't disagree with the rating itself: we merely dislike the fact that an AO rating is equivalent to an outright ban.

P.S. Unless you're a game developer, your constitutional rights don't even enter into the equation. Under neither US nor Canadian law is any person's right to play videogames, violent or otherwise, enshrined.

Eh, I have doubts of the 'Commercial Free Childhood's' actual power in the legislative world. And releasing the video would kinda ruin the whole point of giving it an AO rating. The ESRB did so, because the content equals AO standards.

Look at GTA, what detail does that game have in violence. You shoot someone, they fall down, and a fake-looking pool of blood surrounds them. The bodies don't even show the bullet wounds. And after you kill someone, an ambulance shows up and somehow revives the person with CPR.

GTA, before Manhunt, was considered the most violent game ever. Manhunt 2 is leagues beyond GTA. Immense Gore, Brutal Torture, Full and Partial Decapitations and Mutilations. When it comes to violence, GTA is Manhunts' bitch. C'mon, if a lawyer with over 20 years of experience ends up banned from law in several states, suspended multiple times, has his mental sanity legally questioned and is pending on loosing his law license as we speak, then what is this anti-capitalist, wannabe PTA group going to do to the ESRB.

@ Hannah

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

It's in the Declaration of Independence. If adults want to play video games, violent or otherwise, no one can stop them. fThe AO rating takes the United States back to when the British ruled and we couldn't say anything against them.

@ MachShot

I understand that the CFCC doesn't have a leg to stand on, but perhaps the people who had rated Manhunt 2 didn't. The CCFC used their leverage as an extension of Harvard to attempt to intimidate the ESRB, and as I see things, it worked. We need to show the ESRB the chinks in the politicians' armor, and help to exploit them.

[Hannah]

@ Hannah



It's in the Declaration of Independence. If adults want to play video games, violent or otherwise, no one can stop them. fThe AO rating takes the United States back to when the British ruled and we couldn't say anything against them.

@ MachShot

I understand that the CFCC doesn't have a leg to stand on, but perhaps the people who had rated Manhunt 2 didn't. The CCFC used their leverage as an extension of Harvard to attempt to intimidate the ESRB, and as I see things, it worked. We need to show the ESRB the chinks in the politicians' armor, and help to exploit them.

A developer/publisher's right to freedom of speech is still far more important than your particular interpretation of "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness," which most likely wouldn't stand up in court. It's better to focus on the censorship side of things because... well... content creators are having their rights trampled upon far more than the rest of us. I can't own any game I want anyway -- I'm a poor student, so I can't afford to -- but if I made a game that other people wanted to play, I should be able to legally sell it.

[Thefremen]

@ Hannah



It's in the Declaration of Independence. If adults want to play video games, violent or otherwise, no one can stop them. fThe AO rating takes the United States back to when the British ruled and we couldn't say anything against them.

@ MachShot

I understand that the CFCC doesn't have a leg to stand on, but perhaps the people who had rated Manhunt 2 didn't. The CCFC used their leverage as an extension of Harvard to attempt to intimidate the ESRB, and as I see things, it worked. We need to show the ESRB the chinks in the politicians' armor, and help to exploit them.

That's a very interesting point. On the other hand, I think it's more worrisome that the constitution is being disregarded on a daily basis by the bush administration...

[Brokenscope]

http://gamepolitics.com/2007/06/19/wii-mote-prompts-watchdog-groups-demand-that-manhunt-2-be-adults-only/

Did you not notice this article? It shows that a media watchdog group demanded that Manhunt 2 be rated Adults Only. Unless the ESRB releases the video that Take Two sent them, which they won't, thisis the only reasoning for the AO rating that is readily available. I'm sick of the ESRB bending over backwards for media watchdog groups and not defending our constitutional rights.

So if I was going to do something anyways, then someone demands I do it, I'm suddenly bending over backwards for them?

Your assuming the ESRB wasn't going to in the first place. The fact of the matter is you have no proof. Your seeing a pattern where you WANT to see one.

[KN]

Of course the ESRB doesn't have stock. But Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo does.

Onoes teh grammars!

[LegallyBlindGamer]

So if I was going to do something anyways, then someone demands I do it, I'm suddenly bending over backwards for them?

Your assuming the ESRB wasn't going to in the first place. The fact of the matter is you have no proof. Your seeing a pattern where you WANT to see one.

How do you know that they were going to rate Manhunt 2 AO in the first place? It's the conclusion I came to with the information I had. If the footage was released to the public, then we could all make decisions for ourselves on whether or not Rockstar crossed the line.

[LegallyBlindGamer]

There shouldn't be a line to cross.

If such a line exists it should be crossed by anyone who wishes to cross it.

If you don't want to cross the line then stay behind it.

If you are offended by anyone who did cross the line then don't associate yourself with those individuals.

If you are offended by what is made by those who crossed the line then don't use their creations.

If you find yourself lonely and sad then maybe you should consider that your prejudice against those who cross your line was the cause of it.

If you want to claim you offer a product for everybody then you should include those who wish to cross the line.

Amen to that! Sigged!

Edit: nevermind. too long

[LegallyBlindGamer]

Okay, what do you think this event should be called? I was thinking the Rally Against Media Censorship. We should probably have someone notify Hal Halpin, and ask for his support. I'd do it myself, but I want this to be a group effort.