Northern Iraq

[Grahamr]

http://www.iraqslogger.com/index.php/topic/53

Okay.

In short, Kurds are the main ethnic group in Northern Iraq...It's part of an unofficial area called Kurdistan.....

But you see, Turkey is at odds with the Kurdish terrorist groups...and just recently, thousands of Turkish troops and tanks are deploying along both sides of the Turkish/Iraqi border.....They are attacking kurdish areas, and the Peshmerga, who are a huge kurdish paramilitary and ironically enough...Are allied with the Coalition.
:eek:

If i understand the Iraqslogger story, the Peshmerga signed a truce with the turks, but will fight back if they get mauled. I really hope that treaty works, because getting into a war with turkey would really screw up our resume, symbolically(sp?) speaking.

But, given their mass numbers(reputed to be 80,000-170,000) and allegiance with the Coaltion, i'm surprised that the Peshmerga are never mentioned. Does the media just focus on Baghdad??:confused:

[Thefremen]

In before new version of war of 1967.

[seductivpancakes]

It doesn't look like the American media doesn't focus much on Iraq that much anyways. It's all about Paris Hilton.

[Brokenscope]

Possibly because for a while now Northern Iraq has been considerably calmer. I mean Kurdish groups were putting out commercials telling people to invest in the Kurdish parts of Iraq since they for the most part have actually be pretty stable and very helpful most of the time.

The only problem being that the Kurdish populations would love to have there own country separate from Iraq and Turkey and the other nation involved in that little dispute. While the Iraqi Kurds have been content to wait for something to happen in that situation, Kurds in the other countries have been fairly active in try to split off. To the point of militaristic activity.

Turkey believes... er knows that many of the the Turkish separatists are based in Kurdish Iraq and thus wants us to stop them, but if we don't they will, possibly by invading Northern Iraq... which won't end well for the turkish because something tells me we really want the kurds to be our friends... which imho is a good idea.. then again we would piss off Turkey who has been somewhat friendly in the Iraq situation.

Really though we could divert air power and bring any major Turkish attack to a halt then let the Kurds do the clean up. Then again I may be talking out of my ass on this last part.

[Grahamr]

It doesn't look like the American media doesn't focus much on Iraq that much anyways. It's all about Paris Hilton.

Tabloid Press FTL


Possibly because for a while now Northern Iraq has been considerably calmer. I mean Kurdish groups were putting out commercials telling people to invest in the Kurdish parts of Iraq since they for the most part have actually be pretty stable and very helpful most of the time.

The only problem being that the Kurdish populations would love to have there own country separate from Iraq and Turkey and the other nation involved in that little dispute. While the Iraqi Kurds have been content to wait for something to happen in that situation, Kurds in the other countries have been fairly active in try to split off. To the point of militaristic activity.

Turkey believes... er knows that many of the the Turkish separatists are based in Kurdish Iraq and thus wants us to stop them, but if we don't they will, possibly by invading Northern Iraq... which won't end well for the turkish because something tells me we really want the kurds to be our friends... which imho is a good idea.. then again we would piss off Turkey who has been somewhat friendly in the Iraq situation.

Really though we could divert air power and bring any major Turkish attack to a halt then let the Kurds do the clean up. Then again I may be talking out of my ass on this last part.

Really? Intresting.....I would like to chill with the kurds:)

But, if george bush has to drag us into war with turkey...omfg.

In the scenario you described above, would it be likey that the turks would stand down after being air attacked?

[Brokenscope]

I doubt they would attack in the first place, they would fair no better with the kurds than we have with the insurgency, unless they make no regards for civilian casualties, which could then vindicate the Kurdish cause rather effectively. Then there is our air power and the fact that we would stop an invading ground force because it would threaten the stability of the one real stable part of Iraq.

[KN]

Tabloid Press FTL




Really? Intresting.....I would like to chill with the kurds:)

But, if george bush has to drag us into war with turkey...omfg.

In the scenario you described above, would it be likey that the turks would stand down after being air attacked?

Ah yes, declaring war on a potential European Union member. That will go over SO well.

Are they in NATO yet, anyway?

[Jabrwock]

Ah yes, declaring war on a potential European Union member. That will go over SO well.

Are they in NATO yet, anyway?
No, not in NATO yet either. Especially since Armenia is a NATO "partner" (not a full member yet).

I imagine Turkey will have to acknowledge the Armnian genocide of 1915 (I've never understood why Turkey is against this, because it was Ottoman Empire stuff, Turkey didn't exist until 1923...)

[Brokenscope]

Who would be decalring war on who? If Turkey does indeed invade Northern Iraq with the intention of attacking the Kurds... they are our strongest allies in Iraq.


Also a war with turkey wouldn't be one we would be drug into. It would go something like this.

Random military officer: Sir!!! Turkish forces have moved into northern Iraq!!!
General <insert name here>: I love the smell of napalm in the morning...

Random military officer:General?

General: You want the truth? YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!

Random military officer:Sir, they have enganged with Kurdish Militia and..!!!

Genral takes headphones off.
General: Damnit, NEVER interuppt me when I'm watching a war movie or Patton on my Ipod Video.

Random military officer:Sir!! The turkish have invaded Northern Iraq!!!

General:... Roll out the welcome mat.

Random military officer:What, Sir?

General: Damnit Son, the Joint Cheifs are a playing golf call the nearest airforce base and tell them to blow them up.

Random military officer:But Sir!!

General : Shut up or I will have you thrown in the brig.

Random military officer:Yes Sir!!

Genral puts headphones back on.
General: Thats right Patton call that Ruskie a bastard.....

.........
...........

ANYWAYS...:confused::rolleyes:

Sorry kinda ran off with that.

Any reaction tot hat would be a limited Air response that basically says stay the **** out. Now what the Kurdish rebels do at that point is not really within out control. If they have been attacked.... well who knows. Turkey could inadvertently create Kurdistan by starting a full blow war again.

[Jabrwock]

Sounds like most Turkish politicians want the military to deal with PKK installations inside Turkey first, before thinking about going into Iraq. So they're just massing troops along the border to stop raids.

[Grahamr]

Now...why is it that casualties in the New Iraqi Army are never mentioned???

Is it because they are arabs or something???

I heard about the 3,500 crosses on the santa monica pier...they need to get off their asses and plant 7,000 more.

[Thefremen]

Sounds like most Turkish politicians want the military to deal with PKK installations inside Turkey first, before thinking about going into Iraq. So they're just massing troops along the border to stop raids.

They need to also get some people on the Battlegrounds and also make sure they aren't getting in by boat.

What faction does Turkey play?

[Brokenscope]

Lulz LORE!

[Grahamr]

Prince harry is aggro magnet....

[Jabrwock]

Prince harry is aggro magnet....
Which is why they sent him to Alberta to get drunk and fondle waitresses, and then they're sending him to Afghanistan. To aggro the Taliban. :D

[Brokenscope]

but I thought he was a "tank"?

[Jabrwock]

but I thought he was a "tank"?
Nah, more like a Hunter/Scout.

Harry joined his regiment on 8th May 2006, before reporting to The Armour Centre at Bovington in Dorset to begin the Troop Leaders’ Course, his special-to-arm training to become an armoured reconnaissance troop leader.

[Brokenscope]

Does he have a raptor pet or does he have a cat? I bet hes wasting it on a full marksman build.

[BlackIce, British Commie]

Tabloid Press FTL




Really? Intresting.....I would like to chill with the kurds:)

But, if george bush has to drag us into war with turkey...omfg.

In the scenario you described above, would it be likey that the turks would stand down after being air attacked?

Let's put it this way.. No. Remember, the turks are running around with US AND Russian SAM systems.

They'd seriously blow the B52's out of the sky. That and the basic Turkish Conscript is as hard as a US Marine. Yeah, you heard me.

Oh, and Thread Ressurection FTW.

[Grahamr]

I don't know if the U.S will fight Turkey if they invade....They want to appease them, what with the Armenian resolution getting shot down and all.


On the other hand, I hear that Israeli mercs and spys are working inside Kurdistan to help train miltias. Iraqi Kurdistan is sometimes critisized as being "A second Israel".


America and Israel in a conflict of intrest...that's something you don't see every day :D.

Maybe Greece will take advantage of the confusion in Kurdistan to take back Cyprus.

[BlackIce, British Commie]

I don't know if the U.S will fight Turkey if they invade....They want to appease them, what with the Armenian resolution getting shot down and all.


On the other hand, I hear that Israeli mercs and spys are working inside Kurdistan to help train miltias. Iraqi Kurdistan is sometimes critisized as being "A second Israel".


America and Israel in a conflict of intrest...that's something you don't see every day :D.

Maybe Greece will take advantage of the confusion in Kurdistan to take back Cyprus.

Isreal and Turkey are actually fairly good friends.

Greece Vs. Turkey = Turkish Army in Athens within twelve hours.

[Tollwutig]

It doesn't look like the American media doesn't focus much on Iraq that much anyways. It's all about Paris Hilton.

I thought it was all about Brittany and her kids these days.

Let's put it this way.. No. Remember, the turks are running around with US AND Russian SAM systems.

They'd seriously blow the B52's out of the sky. That and the basic Turkish Conscript is as hard as a US Marine. Yeah, you heard me.

Oh, and Thread Ressurection FTW.

And neither US nor Russian SAM systems can see a B-2 Bomber (which is what we use these days) until it opens its Bomb Bay Doors. B-2's also have a much longer range. You really should keep up with our not so secret secret airplanes.

As to Northern Iraq:

If Turkey dares step into Northern Iraq they can kiss their chances of being allowed into the EU goodbye. Most EU members are on the fence over Turkey as it is, due to a number issues such as human rights, equality, Cypress, the whole Armenian Genocide thing, etc. Invading another country that has already been invaded might just put the lid on that coffin if not nail it down.
At best Turkey has to tread lightly.

As for the whole Kurdish insurrection it could be resolved so easily if not our idiot politicians, and Turkish greed. It would also give us much quicker what we really want in the Middle East than Iraq.

All we need to do is get Turkey to concede a small portion of what is traditionally Kurdish territory in southern Turkey as is (not all of it), and then separate out Iraqi Kurdistan, and form the actual Nation of Kurdistan.

The agreements & concessions would be as follows:

Turkey would concede a portion of traditional Kurdish land to the new Kurdistan. Would allow any Kurd who wished to move to this new nation the freedom to do so.

The Kurds would: Allow forgo the establishment of any form of military for no less than 50 years. Would allow the United States the lease of land for the establishment of a military base within Kurdish Territory, and unlimited access to Kurdish airspace for military purposes at $1US for no less than 75 years. Officially declare the unceded traditional territory to no longer be Kurdish territory, but to officially be land held by Turkmen perpetually.

The United States would: Offer an assistance package which would be used to finance Kurds who wish to move into the new Kurdistan, and assist them in establishing new lives inside the new country. Would Sign a treaty to defend the borders of Kurdistan from all enemies for no less than 75 years.


All of the above would have the following effects:

Turkey would be able to get rid of a vast portion of the Kurdish insurrectionists, and would get a well protected border for 50-75 years.

The Kurds would finally achieve their dream of a homeland, and a nation established.

The United States would gain the centralized stable strong military presence in the region it sought in the invasion of Iraq. The presence would be unconditional much like its presence in Germany & Japan after WWII.

It would also serve as a threat to other Middle Eastern nations in that it would show the United States is capable and willing to invade, conquer, and divide a nation in order to achieve peace and stability in the region.

[BlackIce, British Commie]

I thought it was all about Brittany and her kids these days.

And neither US nor Russian SAM systems can see a B-2 Bomber (which is what we use these days) until it opens its Bomb Bay Doors. B-2's also have a much longer range. You really should keep up with our not so secret secret airplanes.

As to Northern Iraq:

If Turkey dares step into Northern Iraq they can kiss their chances of being allowed into the EU goodbye. Most EU members are on the fence over Turkey as it is, due to a number issues such as human rights, equality, Cypress, the whole Armenian Genocide thing, etc. Invading another country that has already been invaded might just put the lid on that coffin if not nail it down.
At best Turkey has to tread lightly.

As for the whole Kurdish insurrection it could be resolved so easily if not our idiot politicians, and Turkish greed. It would also give us much quicker what we really want in the Middle East than Iraq.

All we need to do is get Turkey to concede a small portion of what is traditionally Kurdish territory in southern Turkey as is (not all of it), and then separate out Iraqi Kurdistan, and form the actual Nation of Kurdistan.

The agreements & concessions would be as follows:

Turkey would concede a portion of traditional Kurdish land to the new Kurdistan. Would allow any Kurd who wished to move to this new nation the freedom to do so.

The Kurds would: Allow forgo the establishment of any form of military for no less than 50 years. Would allow the United States the lease of land for the establishment of a military base within Kurdish Territory, and unlimited access to Kurdish airspace for military purposes at $1US for no less than 75 years. Officially declare the unceded traditional territory to no longer be Kurdish territory, but to officially be land held by Turkmen perpetually.

The United States would: Offer an assistance package which would be used to finance Kurds who wish to move into the new Kurdistan, and assist them in establishing new lives inside the new country. Would Sign a treaty to defend the borders of Kurdistan from all enemies for no less than 75 years.


All of the above would have the following effects:

Turkey would be able to get rid of a vast portion of the Kurdish insurrectionists, and would get a well protected border for 50-75 years.

The Kurds would finally achieve their dream of a homeland, and a nation established.

The United States would gain the centralized stable strong military presence in the region it sought in the invasion of Iraq. The presence would be unconditional much like its presence in Germany & Japan after WWII.

It would also serve as a threat to other Middle Eastern nations in that it would show the United States is capable and willing to invade, conquer, and divide a nation in order to achieve peace and stability in the region.

That won't work for two main reasons.

1. That is FAR too close to the Russian Federation from their point of view. They aimed their Nukes at European cities for the same thing, and with the US having that kind of presence they'd go ape.

2. Not one man in the region would agree to it. You know how pissy they get when the Yanks ask them to give up land. They've been in an on-and-off war with Israel since 1948 for more-or-less the same thing.

And finally, the Industrial World (Including Turkey) has worked out that you look for changes in Air Currents to find Stealths. It's not that hard to reset your systems to work on that basis.

[Grahamr]

Turkey and Israel are buddies, but lately Turkey has been alarmed, in a "WTF Y U TRAIN KURDZ?!" kind of way.


I think that before anything happens, The American special forces should take action against the PKK. If it's supposedly only that faction that the Turks are worried about, then we may be able to cripple them and save Iraqi Kurdistan before it's too late.