Weekly News Thread 06/04 - 06/10

[Tollwutig]

New News Week.

[Jabrwock]

Putin Warns on U.S. Missiles in Europe (http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/06/03/ap3782478.html)Russian President Vladimir Putin warned that U.S. plans to build a missile defense system in Eastern Europe would force Moscow to target its weapons against Europe.Wheeeee, it's the Cold War all over again! Now all we need is the US funding anti-Russian terrorists, and Russia funding anti-US terrorists, and we're set!

[bayushisan]

Putin Warns on U.S. Missiles in Europe (http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/06/03/ap3782478.html)Wheeeee, it's the Cold War all over again! Now all we need is the US funding anti-Russian terrorists, and Russia funding anti-US terrorists, and we're set!

And with everything that Putin has been doing to bring back the old days over there can anyone say that they didn't see this coming?

[Jabrwock]

And with everything that Putin has been doing to bring back the old days over there can anyone say that they didn't see this coming?
Considering the US pulled out of the treaties that ended the Cold War long before Putin started his "return to old vays"? Hmmmm.

[Jabrwock]

Where dinosaurs walk with men - Taken from the Winnipeg Free Press
DINOSAURS are monstrously exciting. Alas, museums with dinosaur exhibits tend to indoctrinate visitors with Godless evolutionary theory. So parents who believe that every word in the Bible is literally true have nowhere to take their tots for an uncorrupting fix of Tyrannosaurus rex.

Until last week. The Creation Museum opened in Petersburg, Ky., on May 28. Here, impressionable youngsters can watch awesome animatronic dinosaurs interacting with primitive humans, just as Genesis implies they did, shortly after the beginning of time one Monday morning in 4004 BC.

The museum's aim is to teach visitors how to answer attacks on the Bible's authority in geology, biology and so on, while providing a "family-friendly experience." The founder, Ken Ham, raised $27 million from thousands of pious donors to build it. The exhibits are as whizzy as any in a theme park. But starting with scripture and trying to force the facts to fit makes for odd science.

The museum says that, if Noah took two of every animal on his ark, he must have had dinosaurs. Could dinosaurs have fitted into a boat only 300 cubits (about 6,000 feet) long? "It is likely that God brought young adults. Being smaller, they would be easier to care for."

The attention to detail is superb. In one exhibit, tiny human figures about to be engulfed by the rising floodwaters are shown throttling each other, to remind visitors why they deserved to drown. The flood killed off most dinosaurs, of course, but the descendants of those Noah saved survived until quite recently, which is why legends of dragons pop up in so many cultures. They were probably hunted to extinction by chaps like St. George, says another exhibit.

The debate about the origins of everything is presented even-handedly. Some people trust God, accept that the universe is 6,000 years old and will go to heaven. Others trust human reason, think the Big Bang happened 14 billion years ago and, having abandoned God, are quite likely to start browsing the Internet for pornography or commit genocide.

Visitors are spared graphic examples of porn, but there are some nasty pictures of lynched black Americans and of Nazi concentration camps.

The museum has humorous touches, too. Fragile displays are labeled "Thou shalt not touch! Please." Unfinished exhibits carry the apology: "This space is still evolving." And, apart from the supercilious ape-descended journalists at the opening, the crowds seem to love it.

Ben, from West Virginia, says he is delighted to be able to take his children to a museum that stands up to secularism, even if, at four and two years old, they may be "a bit young to take it all in."Ow, my brain hurts. :rolleyes:

[steelcobra]

That's definitely an entertaining take on a museum that tosses out every single shred of evidence in favor of a book written by primitive goat-sacrificing people who though the world was flat and consisted almost entirely of the desert they lived in.

[bayushisan]

That's definitely an entertaining take on a museum that tosses out every single shred of evidence in favor of a book written by primitive goat-sacrificing people who though the world was flat and consisted almost entirely of the desert they lived in.

Yeah all that fossil record evidence is just astounding. All those transitional forms we've found sure have proved evolutin to be true. :rolleyes:

[Jabrwock]

Yeah all that fossil record evidence is just astounding. All those transitional forms we've found sure have proved evolutin to be true. :rolleyes:
Congradulations on failing evolutionary biology. Come back when you have a better understanding of how it works, and then you use the sarcasm.

For starters, there's the ample evidence of the evolution/transition of the horse from dog-sized to full Clydesdale. There's many transitional examples of insects.

Most recently, they've proved the process of sympatric speciation (which results in new species arising from old), through the Hawthorn fly adapting to a new food type in their evironment, and as a result no longer mating with "old" versions of the Hawthorn. Even when they are in the presence of each other, interbreeding since adaptation are down to the amount you'd expect to see in similar but still incompatible species.

[Tollwutig]

Yeah all that fossil record evidence is just astounding. All those transitional forms we've found sure have proved evolutin to be true. :rolleyes:

Wow ignorance is bliss. I am beginning to think that making people understanding basics of science should be a requirement for reproduction.

[bayushisan]

Congradulations on failing evolutionary biology. Come back when you have a better understanding of how it works, and then you use the sarcasm.

So the total lack of any actual fossil evidence can't be used as evidence now? Good to know that. There are other refudiations of the so called evidence for evolution but, as history shows, you're not willing to even listen to it.

There are other creation science museums in the country and as they rely on private funding for support I hardly see a reason to protest.

This by the way perfectly illustrates my problem with many supporters of evolution. They don't want debate they want dogmatic acceptance of what they say is true. Kinda like what Christians have been accused of doing. Anytime I've seen the subject come up in a debate its the evolution supporters trying to shout down the opposition. That's not good debate and it serves nothing.

[Jabrwock]

Wow ignorance is bliss. I am beginning to think that making people understanding basics of science should be a requirement for reproduction.
Nah, we still need bodies for manual labour. ;)

[Jabrwock]

So the total lack of any actual fossil evidence can't be used as evidence now? Good to know that. There are other refudiations of the so called evidence for evolution but, as history shows, you're not willing to even listen to it.Show me. I have yet to see this evidence other than Creationist posturing and willfull ignorance of scientific data. Or twisting of such data for their own.

There are other creation science museums in the country and as they rely on private funding for support I hardly see a reason to protest. Who's protesting? If creationists want to pay their own money to support their ignorant view of reality, who am I to stop them?

This by the way perfectly illustrates my problem with many supporters of evolution. They don't want debate they want dogmatic acceptance of what they say is true. Kinda like what Christians have been accused of doing. Anytime I've seen the subject come up in a debate its the evolution supporters trying to shout down the opposition. That's not good debate and it serves nothing.Saying that evolution is a lie isn't a debate. Arguing the logic of the existence of God isn't a debate about evolution. Saying that only atheists believe in evolution isn't a debate.

If creationists can show SOME evidence that Creation happened (and simply poking holes in evolution doesn't count as an argument *for* Creation), then we'd have an argument. Instead we just get willful ignorance of physics, biology, chemistry, social sciences, anthropology, geology, paleontology, etc.

[bayushisan]

Wow ignorance is bliss. I am beginning to think that making people understanding basics of science should be a requirement for reproduction.

Are you saying that the fossil record does support it? Because that would show an astounding lack of historical knowledge. Evidence like the Piltdown Man and others of similair kind have been proven to be either fakes or misidentifications for years. Not to mention the fallacy of the embryonic drawings that biologists have known about since the 1860's, or the errors with the Miller Experiment in which he used the wrong atmosphere (something they've known since the 1960's) and the second experiment which used the correct atmosphere but created formaldahyde and cynanide, which while organic in nature, are not amino acids.

[KN]

Putin Warns on U.S. Missiles in Europe (http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/06/03/ap3782478.html)Wheeeee, it's the Cold War all over again! Now all we need is the US funding anti-Russian terrorists, and Russia funding anti-US terrorists, and we're set!

Ah, great. There's the answer to "Why shouldn't the US be arrogant? What's the worst that could happen? :)".

Where dinosaurs walk with men - Taken from the Winnipeg Free Press
Ow, my brain hurts. :rolleyes:

Can we kill these people? :)

[bayushisan]

Show me. I have yet to see this evidence other than Creationist posturing and willfull ignorance of scientific data. Or twisting of such data for their own.

Who's protesting? If creationists want to pay their own money to support their ignorant view of reality, who am I to stop them?

Saying that evolution is a lie isn't a debate. Arguing the logic of the existence of God isn't a debate about evolution. Saying that only atheists believe in evolution isn't a debate.

If creationists can show SOME evidence that Creation happened (and simply poking holes in evolution doesn't count as an argument *for* Creation), then we'd have an argument. Instead we just get willful ignorance of physics, biology, chemistry, social sciences, anthropology, geology, paleontology, etc.


The very existence of fundamental laws that govern how energy works, the placement of the earth as being perfectly suited to support life, and sheer mathematical and scientific impossibility of life are all evidences of and for Creation as described in Genesis. The fact that the fossil record supports animals appearing, not evolving, is also evidence of this. One can study the Earth's magnetic field and its corresponding radiation to show that the level of radiation millions of years ago would have been to great to allow any life to exist. These are all things I've mentioned before and yet they've all been rejected out of turn. That's what I mean by being unwilling to listen. I've heard all the arguments for evolution before, researched them and rejected them as being nonsensical.

[KN]

Look at this virus. It's so ****ing awesome at destroying life it PROOOOVES this universe was MADE by someone. Someone who is an asshole.

[steelcobra]

The very existence of fundamental laws that govern how energy works, the placement of the earth as being perfectly suited to support life, and sheer mathematical and scientific impossibility of life are all evidences of and for Creation as described in Genesis. The fact that the fossil record supports animals appearing, not evolving, is also evidence of this. One can study the Earth's magnetic field and its corresponding radiation to show that the level of radiation millions of years ago would have been to great to allow any life to exist. These are all things I've mentioned before and yet they've all been rejected out of turn. That's what I mean by being unwilling to listen. I've heard all the arguments for evolution before, researched them and rejected them as being nonsensical.

Wow, it's like every single fundie anti-evolution rant I've ever heard rolled into a single rambling paragraph.

Here's a full destruction of the entire Fundamentalist argument against evolution:
http://sciam.com/article.cfm?articleId=000D4FEC-7D5B-1D07-8E49809EC588EEDF&chanId=sa013&modsrc=most_popular
Some of the quesations it answers:
1. Evolution is only a theory. It is not a fact or a scientific law.
2. Natural selection is based on circular reasoning: the fittest are those who survive, and those who survive are deemed fittest.
3. Evolution is unscientific, because it is not testable or falsifiable. It makes claims about events that were not observed and can never be re-created.
4. Increasingly, scientists doubt the truth of evolution.
5. The disagreements among even evolutionary biologists show how little solid science supports evolution.
6. If humans descended from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?
7. Evolution cannot explain how life first appeared on earth.
8. Mathematically, it is inconceivable that anything as complex as a protein, let alone a living cell or a human, could spring up by chance.

[Jabrwock]

Are you saying that the fossil record does support it? Because that would show an astounding lack of historical knowledge.Best example of evolution and speciation in action, see the Hawthorn fly. Evolution at work right before our eyes.

Evidence like the Piltdown Man and others of similair kind have been proven to be either fakes or misidentifications for years. Not to mention the fallacy of the embryonic drawings that biologists have known about since the 1860's, or the errors with the Miller Experiment in which he used the wrong atmosphere (something they've known since the 1960's) and the second experiment which used the correct atmosphere but created formaldahyde and cynanide, which while organic in nature, are not amino acids.Piltdown - no serious anthropologist considers it among the thousands of fossils of the descent of Man.

Here's a good list of most of the more significant human fossils found to date, excluding of course, fakes.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/specimen.html

And here's a site that lists all the different transitional fossils, as you demand:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional.html

It covers from fish to bony fish, from fish to shark, from fish to amphibian, from amphibian to reptile, from amphibian to amphibian, from reptile to mammal, from reptile to bird, etc.

It also covers transitional fossils within families.

And finally, it even answers the question "why are there gaps?"
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional/part1a.html#gaps

[Tollwutig]

Are you saying that the fossil record does support it? Because that would show an astounding lack of historical knowledge. Evidence like the Piltdown Man and others of similair kind have been proven to be either fakes or misidentifications for years. Not to mention the fallacy of the embryonic drawings that biologists have known about since the 1860's, or the errors with the Miller Experiment in which he used the wrong atmosphere (something they've known since the 1960's) and the second experiment which used the correct atmosphere but created formaldahyde and cynanide, which while organic in nature, are not amino acids.

The very existence of fundamental laws that govern how energy works, the placement of the earth as being perfectly suited to support life, and sheer mathematical and scientific impossibility of life are all evidences of and for Creation as described in Genesis. The fact that the fossil record supports animals appearing, not evolving, is also evidence of this. One can study the Earth's magnetic field and its corresponding radiation to show that the level of radiation millions of years ago would have been to great to allow any life to exist. These are all things I've mentioned before and yet they've all been rejected out of turn. That's what I mean by being unwilling to listen. I've heard all the arguments for evolution before, researched them and rejected them as being nonsensical.

Again Ignorance is bliss :rolleyes: . Yes there have been fakes, mis-identifications, etc. But there is overwhelming fossil evidence still supporting Evolution, even though you continue to ignore it.

See while Piltdown man was a fake there about 10 species of Homonids you're forgetting about. How do you explain Homo erectus, Australopithecus, Homo neanderthalensis, Homo floresiensis?
Homo Erectus was alive well before humans, but was very close physically to humans. Are you saying God created a version 1.0 of Humans?
Homo floresiensis lived at the same time as Homo Erectus and for some time after them. Considering that floresiensis was similar to erectus except that they were around 2.5-3.5 ft tall. I guess you could say this was Humans v1.0b.

Homo neanderthalensis are very similar to humans, had basic society, and managed art. They probably even had religion. Except for a few minor things (bigger bones, larger brains, more muscle, lower foreheads, broader noses) they were almost exactly like humans, but possibly not fertile with humans.
Humans (homo sapiens) started showing up a couple of thousand years AFTER homo neanderthalensis and once they began to spread neanderthalensis started to disappear.

So either God was experimenting with a lot of forms that were sort of in his image and decided on humans, or else these developed over time.

You see no matter how many historical errors you can find, I can show about 5 or 6 examples you can not explain away without completely ignoring the evidence in front of you.

[Jabrwock]

One can study the Earth's magnetic field and its corresponding radiation to show that the level of radiation millions of years ago would have been to great to allow any life to exist.What kind of radiation? Be more specific, and include dates.

4.6 billion years ago to 4 billion years ago, during the Hadean eon, yes, radiation was too high for life to exist anywhere. But it dropped quickly as the crust cooled.

Pre-Ozone layer, UV radiation was too high for land creatures. But Pre-Ozone, everything still lived in the oceans, which would have shielded them. By 3 billion years, photosynthesis was developed, and over the next billion years, formed the Ozone layer, which allowed life on land to be safe from UV radiation.

So, which radiation were you talking about?

[Jabrwock]

Greek man shot in double-park row (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6720099.stm)A Greek policeman has been arrested after allegedly shooting a man who had double-parked his car to buy breakfast.

The driver and a friend were ordering coffee and cheese pies on Sunday when the off-duty officer told them to move their car, police said.

As they argued the policeman allegedly shot the driver, who is now recovering in hospital, in the thigh. The officer said his gun went off accidentally.

The incident came as Greece introduced tough penalties for driving offences.Holy Judge Dread!

Unless double-parking is against the commandments. Then I guess it's ok to shoot him... ;)

[Tollwutig]

Greek man shot in double-park row (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6720099.stm)Holy Judge Dread!

Unless double-parking is against the commandments. Then I guess it's ok to shoot him... ;)

Thou shalt not double park.

Considering the people I usually see double parking either have a) a rebel flag b) a jesus fish I am thinking it should be made a commandment.

[bayushisan]

I've come to the conclusion that no matter what I try to bring to the table in things like this some people will never listen. I've done my own reading on this in books written by investigative journalists and experts in Creation Science. Of course anything they say is automaticly discarded because their papers and books have a point of view. Ironic that.

[Jabrwock]

I've come to the conclusion that no matter what I try to bring to the table in things like this some people will never listen. I've done my own reading on this in books written by investigative journalists and experts in Creation Science. Of course anything they say is automaticly discarded because their papers and books have a point of view. Ironic that.
No the irony is that you are dismissing our arguments because we or our sources have a point of view.

I nor Tollwutig have dismissed your sources because of their bias. What we've dismissed is your sources because they either fudge data, ignore data, twist data, or outright misquote in order to support their side, without providing any evidence of their own.

[Tollwutig]

I've come to the conclusion that no matter what I try to bring to the table in things like this some people will never listen. I've done my own reading on this in books written by investigative journalists and experts in Creation Science. Of course anything they say is automaticly discarded because their papers and books have a point of view. Ironic that.

No "experts" in Creation Science are generally discarded because they leave so many holes in their arguments that it is seen as comedy. Investigative journalists who have about as much science ability as they do technological ability.

How about reading some scientific papers and understand the repeatable research.

Actually we do listen, and then we shoot holes in your argument and you proceed to ignore them, like you did with both mine & Jabrwock's posts where we give you additional fossil evidence.

[Pelor]

The very existence of fundamental laws that govern how energy works, the placement of the earth as being perfectly suited to support life, and sheer mathematical and scientific impossibility of life are all evidences of and for Creation as described in Genesis.
No it isn't. A one-to-billion chance of creating life multiplied over a billion trials gives a half-decent result. I can't figure it out though, because my calculator isn't l337 enough :(

The placement of Earth was random, and life formed because it was more suitable than other spots. Now, life evolving on a hostile planet would be even more spectacular.

Also, it's Intelligent Design that's not falsifiable.

[Kincyr]

Where dinosaurs walk with men - Taken from the Winnipeg Free Press
Ow, my brain hurts. :rolleyes:
Ironic that the lynched black Americans and Nazi concentration camps were done in the name of God.

[Jabrwock]

Ironic that the lynched black Americans and Nazi concentration camps were done in the name of God.
Cue NTS... :p

[Jabrwock]

MSG by a new name... Umami!
Who's umami? Human taste now comes in five flavours (http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/senses/umami.html)The taste of MSG is a good signifier of how umami is set off by other substances. The seasoning isn't palatable on its own (it's like brownies without the called-for pinch of salt).

In the 1960s, Chinese food laced with MSG (crystallized umami) developed a bad rep for causing health problems in some people. Since then, studies have shown it needn't be unhealthy when used in moderation.

Many Asian foods are packed with natural umami, especially Thai cuisine, which uses fish sauce, a.k.a. umami in a bottle.

Snack food manufacturers also jumped on the umami bandwagon. Hydrolyzed protein, a form of glutamate added to snacks, is what brings shoppers back to the junk food aisle. It's the same technique Pratt uses to keep customers returning to the Umami Café. It's like crack for your tongue. :)

[KN]

Cue NTS... :p

Hitler was NOT a true Scotsman!

[Jabrwock]

Hitler was NOT a true Scotsman!
And GOOOOOOAAAAAAAALLLLLLLL!

:p

[Picho]

I dismiss both creationism and evolution.

A wizard did it.


And thats all i have to say about that.

[Demontestament]

I dismiss both creationism and evolution.

A wizard did it.


And thats all i have to say about that.

You know, sadly enough I have to agree. The agruments are getting to be nothing but retardation of a few us evidence that gets ignored. Thus I toss my hat towards the theory of A Wizard did it.

[KN]

Another more credible theory is that someone, some day, will go back in time to find out who created the universe, and will inadertably create the universe.

[Demontestament]

Another more credible theory is that someone, some day, will go back in time to find out who created the universe, and will inadertably create the universe.

Wouldn't that be a trip. Then that person will know how bad they ****ed up.

[Picho]

Steilacoom, Wash. - My three boys sprawl on the couch, fingering their Game Boys. I wish I could shoo them outside until dusk. I wish they could tromp to the marsh to search for polliwogs. I wish we didn't have to live in a fortress.

But we don't let our children play in the front yard, because a sex offender lives two doors down. Instead, like other families in this neighborhood, we've built private playgrounds in the back.

From my kitchen window, I see two wooden play structures, three trampolines, and four basketball hoops, including our own. The kids on our street don't play unsupervised on common ground. They have play dates now, arranged by protective parents.


http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0601/p09s03-coop.html

sex offender /= child rapist.

There are so many things that you can do to get on the sex offender list. Fonzy for instance could be a sex offender, as could elvis presly.

[bayushisan]

Ironic that the lynched black Americans and Nazi concentration camps were done in the name of God.

I call utter bullcrap based on any number of arguments I've made in past. Nice try with the flamebait though.

[Jabrwock]

I call utter bullcrap based on any number of arguments I've made in past. Nice try with the flamebait though.
So if a True Christian™ does the killing it's ok? :rolleyes:

Forget I even asked. *sigh*

[KN]

I will pick a post to respond to that does not contain any real arguments I cannot defeat. This will surely work!.

Your plan is fail :(

[bayushisan]

Your plan is fail :(

Actually I win because the post was flamebait and had no redeemable arguments itself. The fact that you refuse to recognize this simple truth is by no means a fault on my part.

In other news
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070604/ap_on_re_us/vermont_secession

You know if these jackanapes want to leave so baddly why not just leave and go to Europe. I'm sure there are people over there who will sympathize with their whining.

[steelcobra]

Actually I win because the post was flamebait and had no redeemable arguments itself. The fact that you refuse to recognize this simple truth is by no means a fault on my part.

In other news
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070604/ap_on_re_us/vermont_secession

You know if these jackanapes want to leave so baddly why not just leave and go to Europe. I'm sure there are people over there who will sympathize with their whining.

Or you simply have no evidence, beyond "creation science" (great oxymoron, by the way), and no one in that field even bothers submitting to serious scientific journals.

And this "simple truth" requires people to believe in what has throughout history been a very dangerous myth.

[Jabrwock]

You know if these jackanapes want to leave so baddly why not just leave and go to the Americas. I'm sure there are people over there who will sympathize with their whining.It's all just a little bit of history repeating....

I guess they weren't True Americans™...

Vt opted to join the United States, why can't they leave?

[bayushisan]

Or you simply have no evidence, beyond "creation science" (great oxymoron, by the way), and no one in that field even bothers submitting to serious scientific journals.

And this "simple truth" requires people to believe in what has throughout history been a very dangerous myth.

So let me see if I understand this correctly. Creation scientists aren't acceptable because they don't have works published in journals that have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo as far as evolutionary theory goes. Right. Just wanted to clarify that point. As for the "hominid fossils" that have been found, since when does a fragment of ankle bone or pieces of skull constitute incontrovertable proof? If memory serves no one's found full blown skeletons or fossils of these things. Its always been fragments of bone that are then extrapolated to look like what is presented. That's hardly proof in and of itself.

Nice shot at my faith by the way, but minus like a million for lack of originality.

[Jabrwock]

So let me see if I understand this correctly. Creation scientists aren't acceptable because they don't have works published in journals that have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo as far as evolutionary theory goes.Nice straw man. You're implying that scientific journals purposefully refuse to accept creation science entries because of their bias, right?

Wrong. Ask any scientific journal editor. They'll tell you they don't publish creation science journals, because creationists don't seem to bother sending them stuff to publish, badly written or otherwise.

As for the "hominid fossils" that have been found, since when does a fragment of ankle bone or pieces of skull constitute incontrovertable proof? If memory serves no one's found full blown skeletons or fossils of these things. Its always been fragments of bone that are then extrapolated to look like what is presented. That's hardly proof in and of itself.Nearly full skulls for many hominids, and major and important pieces of bone for others:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hominina_fossils (FYI the bits that look like off-colour clay are the "filled in" bits. The rest are fully original)

I don't need a full hand and arm to tell you a certain species had opposable thumbs or not. I just need the thumb and index fingers. Just like I don't need leg bones to tell me cranial capacity, or the back of the skull to tell me eating habits. Each new discovery tells us a little bit more about each group in the family tree.

[steelcobra]

So let me see if I understand this correctly. Creation scientists aren't acceptable because they don't have works published in journals that have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo as far as evolutionary theory goes. Right. Just wanted to clarify that point. As for the "hominid fossils" that have been found, since when does a fragment of ankle bone or pieces of skull constitute incontrovertable proof? If memory serves no one's found full blown skeletons or fossils of these things. Its always been fragments of bone that are then extrapolated to look like what is presented. That's hardly proof in and of itself.

Nice shot at my faith by the way, but minus like a million for lack of originality.

Hey, if they had actual proof beyond a book of faith and their own misconceptions/ignorances, they wouldn't have any problem getting it into a real science journal.

And you don't really need much originality to state facts that have been proven true repeatedly.

[Picho]

OMG, science attacks my religion it must be wrong!

OMS, regliong attacks my science it must be wrong!


In the end we get no were, cause magic did everything.

[bayushisan]

Hey, if they had actual proof beyond a book of faith and their own misconceptions/ignorances, they wouldn't have any problem getting it into a real science journal.

And you don't really need much originality to state facts that have been proven true repeatedly.

And I say that calling my faith dangerous and a myth is utter bullcrap. Not to mention bigoted. The Christian community has done alot of good over the years, the fact that you can't get past what a few idiots did wrong in the misuse of their faith doesn't make the whole wrong, nor does it make us ignorant or incomptetant just because we hold to a higher Truth.

[steelcobra]

BWAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
I seriously started laughing the moment I read that. In ten thousand years, they'll be talking about the judeic religions like we talk about the egyptian, greek, and norse beliefs today. Your "Truth" is just your socially ingrained delusions, nothing more.

[KN]

Naah, ten thousand is a bit long. 1000... 1500...

And much earlier than that, the religion will have morphed considerably, and christians will worship Space God, who is also the moon.

[Hannah]

And I say that calling my faith dangerous and a myth is utter bullcrap. Not to mention bigoted. The Christian community has done alot of good over the years, the fact that you can't get past what a few idiots did wrong in the misuse of their faith doesn't make the whole wrong, nor does it make us ignorant or incomptetant just because we hold to a higher Truth.

Well, admittedly it's no worse than any of the other creation myths out there, but it is just that... a myth. Doesn't mean it's 100% false, mind you, just that we have no evidence for it... and any lack of evidence for evolution (ignoring, for the sake of argument, the fact that such evidence does indeed exist) does NOT prove that it's correct. After all, there are many creation myths, all equally likely... so clinging desperately to any given one seems kind of silly. The danger that steelcobra was referring to lies in certain people's refusal to look at the world around them for fear that they might see something that contradicts their beliefs. The average scientist, on the other hand, would love to find irrefutable evidence for creationism or... well... anything that contradicts or otherwise forces a re-examination of the theory of evolution. That'd be a Nobel prize right there, and a hell of a lot of research dollars, particularly from the US government.

[bayushisan]

Well, admittedly it's no worse than any of the other creation myths out there, but it is just that... a myth. Doesn't mean it's 100% false, mind you, just that we have no evidence for it... and any lack of evidence for evolution (ignoring, for the sake of argument, the fact that such evidence does indeed exist) does NOT prove that it's correct. After all, there are many creation myths, all equally likely... so clinging desperately to any given one seems kind of silly. The danger that steelcobra was referring to lies in certain people's refusal to look at the world around them for fear that they might see something that contradicts their beliefs. The average scientist, on the other hand, would love to find irrefutable evidence for creationism or... well... anything that contradicts or otherwise forces a re-examination of the theory of evolution. That'd be a Nobel prize right there, and a hell of a lot of research dollars, particularly from the US government.

*deep breath* ok. I think this is where we're going to slightly disagree. I don't consider myself to be desperately clinging to anything. I meant what I said earlier in that I've done my own research when I was younger and even now I'm reading Lee Strobel's The Case for a Creator. All of these things have only strengthened my belief in Biblical creation. It makes me neither ignorant or incompetant. Thank you for what you said Hannah and I agree in that if someone could indeed refute evolution it would be worthy of that kind of attention. The problem, from what I've seen and personal experience, is that there are very few who are willing to actually debate the issue honestly. What usually happens, again from person experience, is that evolutionary thinkers try to shout down any form of debate that calls into question their status quo. That's not science at that point, its dogma.

[steelcobra]

No, you fundies put up bad explanations that were built so they fit your book, and they're shot down with facts and evidence. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Hannah]

*deep breath* ok. I think this is where we're going to slightly disagree. I don't consider myself to be desperately clinging to anything. I meant what I said earlier in that I've done my own research when I was younger and even now I'm reading Lee Strobel's The Case for a Creator. All of these things have only strengthened my belief in Biblical creation. It makes me neither ignorant or incompetant. Thank you for what you said Hannah and I agree in that if someone could indeed refute evolution it would be worthy of that kind of attention. The problem, from what I've seen and personal experience, is that there are very few who are willing to actually debate the issue honestly. What usually happens, again from person experience, is that evolutionary thinkers try to shout down any form of debate that calls into question their status quo. That's not science at that point, its dogma.

Well... when they're shouting you down with evidence and peer-reviewed studies, and all you (or other creationists/intelligent design adherents) have are arguments like "look at the human eye!" (never mind that cephalopods have totally different eyes, so there's clearly more than one way to make it work), that just suggests that the scientists are getting sick of people forcing them to dig up all the same research over and over again :p I mean, if people kept coming to me and wanting to review the theory of gravity, I'd probably oblige them the first few times with some of Newton or Einstein's work, but if they still didn't get it even after seeing gravity in action, then yeah, I might tell them to bugger off.

[steelcobra]

Well... when they're shouting you down with evidence and peer-reviewed studies, and all you (or other creationists/intelligent design adherents) have are arguments like "look at the human eye!" (never mind that cephalopods have totally different eyes, so there's clearly more than one way to make it work), that just suggests that the scientists are getting sick of people forcing them to dig up all the same research over and over again :p I mean, if people kept coming to me and wanting to review the theory of gravity, I'd probably oblige them the first few times with some of Newton or Einstein's work, but if they still didn't get it even after seeing gravity in action, then yeah, I might tell them to bugger off.

And regarding the Eye, just like the heart, lungs, and other complex organs, you can see the complexity curve from the lowest of flatworms, which only have light-sensing spots, to large mammal eyes.

[KN]

http://thepaincomics.com/Science%20vs.%20Norse.jpg

[nightwng2000]

OMG, science attacks my religion it must be wrong!

OMS, regliong attacks my science it must be wrong!


In the end we get no were, cause magic did everything.

No, no, no!

I told you, humanity was created by technologically superior aliens as an experiment in Unified Diversity. An experiment that has been formally recognized as a failed experiment.

Judgment Day has come! And someone's gonna clean out the petry dish!

[John]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xR8MGAsidFI

Hehehe! Lol!

[BearDogg-X]

2nd Circuit Court of Appeals Rules Against FCC (http://www.reuters.com/article/governmentFilingsNews/idUSN0448926920070604)

A U.S. appeals court on Monday overruled federal regulators who decided that expletives uttered on broadcast television violated decency standards, a major victory for TV networks.

The U.S. Federal Communications Commission had ruled in March 2006 that News Corp.’s Fox television network had violated decency regulations when singer Cher and actress Nicole Richie blurted out profanities during the 2002 and 2003 Billboard Music Awards’ shows. However, no fines were issued.

A panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit in New York, in a 2-1 ruling, said that the FCC’s “new policy sanctioning ‘fleeting expletives’ is arbitrary and capricious.”

The court sent the matter back to the commission for further proceedings. . . .

In their written ruling on Monday, Judges Rosemary Pooler and Peter Hall said that the FCC policy on indecency standards “represents a significant departure from positions previously taken by the agency and relied on by the broadcast industry” and that the commission “has failed to articulate a reasoned basis for this change in policy.”

http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/06/04/fcc-fed/

^A detailed analysis of the ruling.

A huge win for the First Amendment.

[MachShot]

Honestly, I can not trust the FCC. Call me paranoid, but I think that the further we get into the future with advancing media technology, the closer we get to a potencial 'Big Brother' situation. The FCC would definately make at least the top 5 of a potential Big Brother list. So for that I am glad for any defeat of the FCC in the court of law.

[bayushisan]

I agree that it is a win for the first ammendment. Granted I don't much see the point of using expletives every other word. That never made much sense to me.

[Thefremen]

Honestly, I can not trust the FCC. Call me paranoid, but I think that the further we get into the future with advancing media technology, the closer we get to a potencial 'Big Brother' situation. The FCC would definately make at least the top 5 of a potential Big Brother list. So for that I am glad for any defeat of the FCC in the court of law.

The FCC was originally intended to make sure that Radio Enthusiasts wouldn't interfere with the police, the police wouldn't interfere with the navy and the navy wouldn't interfere with civilian marine radio and civilian marine radio wouldn't interefere with firefighters and firefighters wouldn't interefere with the marines etc etc etc. Commercial radio happened and eventually people worried about decency so they had some regulations, then TV....

It's a good example of an agency which was necessary (believe me, you DON'T want your cell phone to interfere with 911 dispatch or your TV remote) but ended up growing way too much. Ironically they have been stepping over their bounds the most during a supposed conservative administration. Perhaps "Ironically" is the wrong word since Irony is not expected but this is completely expected since the new speak meaning of Conservative is someone who wishes to control all aspects of citizens lives and hates small government.

[Kincyr]

I think this quote is somehow appropriate:
If you're watching a TV show, and you decide to take your values from that, you're an idiot. Maybe you should take responsibility for what values your kids are getting. Maybe you shouldn't be letting your kids watch certain shows in the first place if you have such a big problem with them, instead of blaming the shows themselves. (pauses, looks to the camera) Yeah.

[steelcobra]

http://thepaincomics.com/Science%20vs.%20Norse.jpg

Possummomma from Atheist in a Minivan (http://possummomma.blogspot.com/) pegged the essence of fundie with this:
Imagine that America is like a giant sandbox. In this sandbox, you've got 100 kids. Let's just say that 10 of the children are atheist, 60 of them are Christian, 5 of them are fundy Christian, 10 are other religions, and the remaining 15 kids just don't care one way or the other. So...everyone is playing in the sandbox. The five fundy kids are constantly in "Rod and Todd Flanders" mode: damning people to hell, singing songs about God's wrath and, on occasion, God's greatness, or building little sand missions to teach the rest of the kids in the sandbox. Meanwhile, the majority of the theists in the sandbox are just hanging out...playing with some sand. The atheists are kind of moving around the sandbox,... examining the molecular structure of the sand, helping everyone out no matter what they believe, and occasionally asking the really hard questions. And, on occasion, one of the fundies or theists goes kind of bat**** and screws up the work of everyone in the sand. They come over with their buckets of sand and tried to hide the scientific equations that the atheists, and some of the theists, have written in the sand. The problem, for the fundy, is that they can erase the sand...but, they can't erase the mind of the person who wrote the equation in the first place. So, it's a no win battle for them. So...those kids isolate themselves. They say "to hell with" their missions and start hanging out in a corner of the sandbox... all by themselves. They don't allow anyone to come or go. They just sit over in the corner and sing at the top of their lungs or pout. The rest of the sandbox functions pretty cohesively because everyone knows that you are going to have to share the sandbox...so, people start talking. ALL EXCEPT FOR THE FIVE FUNDY KIDS! They're still in their corner. Occasionally, they overhear one of the 60 Christian kids talking about the molecular structure of sand, and they start throwing some sand...but, they really just continue to make themselves look bad. Fast forward twenty years and the fundy kids can barely function because they were isolated in one corner of the sandbox. They may have built a special "Fundy University" and intermarried, but... they really can't play well with anyone else. And, because they were isolated, their numbers are still low. Meanwhile, everyone else who was in the sandbox has grown together. They may not agree on many things, but they still talk.

We're living in a time of great scientific discovery. If you're in the corner of the sandbox, hoping that life stops while you're adoring your deity, you're going to have a very rude awakening when you try to play with the rest of the group. It's already happening! Creationists were busy, in the corner, making plans for a Creationist Museum and trying to make the science that they over-heard fit into that creation museum. And, they build a museum. The problem is that the museum is ****ed up!! It isn't scientific and the majority of sandbox denizens know it. So, the citizens of the sandbox sit back and chuckle at the crazy people in the corner.

As for the "proselytizing" sandboxers... meh'. Every time they throw sand, they get some of it in their own eyes. I, however, bought a pair of goggles a long time ago.

[weatherlight]

Where dinosaurs walk with men - Taken from the Winnipeg Free Press
Ow, my brain hurts. :rolleyes:
I hear you there. Where did you find this, I want to send my comments to the editor.

I dont see why people dont seem to under stand the concept of partial truth, where both creation and evolution are believed to have taken place.

[John]

I hear you there. Where did you find this, I want to send my comments to the editor.

I dont see why people dont seem to under stand the concept of partial truth, where both creation and evolution are believed to have taken place.

Fundamentalist Christians/Muslims/Jews who strictly believe the Bible/Koran/Torah and Fundamentalist Atheists who strictly believe Evolution to be the only way humans got here.

[KN]

Fundamentalist Christians/Muslims/Jews who strictly believe the Bible/Koran/Torah and Fundamentalist Atheists who strictly believe Evolution to be the only way humans got here.

Darwin and Huxley were both agnostics. It's not "our theory", really. It just makes a ****load of sense.

[steelcobra]

That, and there's actual observable evidence to evolution.

BTW, how the hell can an Atheist be fundamentalist? You're assuming that there's some common doctrine to atheism that can be taken to an extreme level.

[bayushisan]

Part of the problem here is that it seems like you're asking Christians to admit the truth of something that they don't believe in. Something thats anathema to them. You say evolution is observable and I say that you're mistaken. What is observable are the changes that happened along familial lines; like the differences in the different breeds of canines for example.

What I don't get is why it seems to be so offensive to you that I don't buy into the dogma of evolution.

[Demontestament]

Part of the problem here is that it seems like you're asking Christians to admit the truth of something that they don't believe in. Something thats anathema to them. You say evolution is observable and I say that you're mistaken. What is observable are the changes that happened along familial lines; like the differences in the different breeds of canines for example.

What I don't get is why it seems to be so offensive to you that I don't buy into the dogma of evolution.

The same can be flipped around and said about how Christians demand that people admit the truth of creationism, something they do not believe in. You say the bible is the 100% truth, I say you are mistaken.

What I don't get is why it seems to be so offensive to you that I don't buy into the dogma of evolution.

I would like to ask. Who here is offended in any way shape or form that Bayu doesn't think evolution is true? Show of hands?

Ok another question. Who here is offended when his posts seem to belittle people and insult their intelligence just because they may post something that counters something he posted, or it is something he does not agree with? Show of hands?

Nobody gets offended because you don't accept the theory of evolution, they get offended when you start to speak in that Holier than thou tone to everybody up on that ****ing high horse, and talking down to them like they were a child when they are only providing a counter arguement to yours.

[weatherlight]

My issue here is both camps are partially correct. The issue is neither wants to admit that the other has a point.

Evolution is the natural process of adaptation and can clearly be seen when people are moved from one environment to the next. Now given a period of time, any living thing will try to adapt possibly making drastic changes to itself in order to survive, those that don't die off. I however don't believe we were once apes, rather a lesser more simplistic man.

The idea of God allows us to understand how exactly we ended up here. Relying solely on chance and evolution, is to much of a coincidence. There are millions of species out there it is impossible that this complex of an environment and system would just appear and evolve out of nowhere. This is why most scientists keep on looking backwards, because they want to explain exactly how we got here.

If we could prove the existence of Creation, Evolution, or Both as a beginning this would all be laid to rest. However I do not expect this to ever happen.

I am not denying evolution, or the existence of god. Its just a matter that a number of ignorant people confused science "witch craft/ evil" and in turn we have more ignorant people running around saying "there is no God" just because they can write an equation that explains what happened. In order to piss the other people off.

Now I'm studying Mechanical Engineering and am thinking about doing Biomedical Engineering for my masters work. And I believe that God is both an Engineer and a Scientist and we being created in his image are able to comprehend the thoughts and ideas behind the worlds inner workings through math and science.

Now as a worst case we are Gods bastard children, result of a screwed up science experiment.

[Tollwutig]

I call utter bullcrap based on any number of arguments I've made in past. Nice try with the flamebait though.

Wow didn't take long on the NTS argument to surface on that one.

So let me see if I understand this correctly. Creation scientists aren't acceptable because they don't have works published in journals that have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo as far as evolutionary theory goes. Right. Just wanted to clarify that point. As for the "hominid fossils" that have been found, since when does a fragment of ankle bone or pieces of skull constitute incontrovertable proof? If memory serves no one's found full blown skeletons or fossils of these things. Its always been fragments of bone that are then extrapolated to look like what is presented. That's hardly proof in and of itself.

Nice shot at my faith by the way, but minus like a million for lack of originality.

Hmm seems to me oh yes there are nearly full skeletons of other homonids such as Lucy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_%28Australopithecus%29) or STS 5 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Sts5f.jpg) or Taung 1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Taung1f.jpg)
Bleh why don't I just give you the list http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_human_fossils#3_million_-_4_million_years_old

Unfortunately like most people who don't want to see evidence you just cover your eyes and "see no evil".

I would love to have the faith to believe that the world was created in seven days... but I have thoughts... and that can really **** up the faith thing, just ask any catholic priest.

Lewis Black has also mentioned in the past that Christians need to quit trying to interpret the Jew's reading material.:D

[Jabrwock]

I hear you there. Where did you find this, I want to send my comments to the editor.Err. The Winnipeg Free Press (http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/). :D

I dont see why people dont seem to under stand the concept of partial truth, where both creation and evolution are believed to have taken place.That's called "non-creationist-christians". The ones who believe in God, and believe he had something to do with creating the universe and how it's run, but don't take Genesis as literal.

[Tollwutig]

My issue here is both camps are partially correct. The issue is neither wants to admit that the other has a point.

Evolution is the natural process of adaptation and can clearly be seen when people are moved from one environment to the next. Now given a period of time, any living thing will try to adapt possibly making drastic changes to itself in order to survive, those that don't die off. I however don't believe we were once apes, rather a lesser more simplistic man.

The idea of God allows us to understand how exactly we ended up here. Relying solely on chance and evolution, is to much of a coincidence. There are millions of species out there it is impossible that this complex of an environment and system would just appear and evolve out of nowhere. This is why most scientists keep on looking backwards, because they want to explain exactly how we got here.

If we could prove the existence of Creation, Evolution, or Both as a beginning this would all be laid to rest. However I do not expect this to ever happen.

I am not denying evolution, or the existence of god. Its just a matter that a number of ignorant people confused science "witch craft/ evil" and in turn we have more ignorant people running around saying "there is no God" just because they can write an equation that explains what happened. In order to piss the other people off.

Now I'm studying Mechanical Engineering and am thinking about doing Biomedical Engineering for my masters work. And I believe that God is both an Engineer and a Scientist and we being created in his image are able to comprehend the thoughts and ideas behind the worlds inner workings through math and science.

Now as a worst case we are Gods bastard children, result of a screwed up science experiment.


Generally my whole problem with the "God did it" argument lies solely in the process of sex. Its messy, has a lot of risks, causes a lot of chances for issues to arise, and is a slower process that asexual reproduction. Sexual reproduction is not a perfect system, in fact it is very imperfect compared to asexual reproduction.
If sex were designed there would many better ways to design it. Not to mention the fact that STDs exist (and not JUST in humans so the whole infidelity argument goes out the window when it comes to non-partnering species). Again why design something that is inherently dangerous? Or worse yet in the case of most spiders, deadly to the male.

The problem is when you look at other things about life there are a lot of really bad designs. So either we're an experiment or life is constantly searching for a better way.

[Jabrwock]

I however don't believe we were once apes, rather a lesser more simplistic man.Just to clarify, no credible evolutionary biologist thinks we were once apes either, but rather an "ape-like" ancestor that resulted in all simian species today. Sorry, I just get nitpicky about that. ;)

The idea of God allows us to understand how exactly we ended up here. Relying solely on chance and evolution, is to much of a coincidence. There are millions of species out there it is impossible that this complex of an environment and system would just appear and evolve out of nowhere.Frankly a God that could lay down the foundations of physics at the Big Bang, knowing that billions years of years later it would result in not only the formation of our solar system, but the formation of life, and the culmination in what we have today, is ****ing AMAZING compared to a God who has to sit down, craft everything by hand, and constantly tinker... But that's just me.

Now I'm studying Mechanical Engineering and am thinking about doing Biomedical Engineering for my masters work. And I believe that God is both an Engineer and a Scientist and we being created in his image are able to comprehend the thoughts and ideas behind the worlds inner workings through math and science.

Now as a worst case we are Gods bastard children, result of a screwed up science experiment.God must have been a Civil Engineer. I mean he ran a sewer pipe through a playground. ;)

[Tollwutig]

That's called "non-creationist-christians". The ones who believe in God, and believe he had something to do with creating the universe and how it's run, but don't take Genesis as literal.


Yes many of these people see Genesis as a means of entertaining the Jews when they were in the desert to make sure they didn't realize they were in a desert without air conditioning. :D (stolen once again Lewis Black)

Also according to some Jews the Genesis teaches the Jews something entirely different than it does Christians. To the Christians it teaches how the heavens and earth were created. To the Jews it teaches them how good they are at bull****ting. (LB)

[Jabrwock]

Judges throw out Guantanamo cases (http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/C9379679-EBBF-4736-A024-B77392C9F6DF.htm)US military judges have thrown out cases against two Guantanamo inmates, casting doubt on future tribunals for the 380 detainees at the prison.

Monday's decisions to dismiss the cases against Omar Khadr, a Canadian, and Salim Ahmed Hamdan, a Yemeni, were a blow to the Bush administration's attempt to try Guantanamo detainees in military court.


Prosecutors allege that Khadr – then 15 - used a hand grenade to kill a US army sergeant during a raid on an al-Qaeda hideout in Afghanistan five years ago and that Hamdan was Osama bin Laden's driver.

But the judges said that although Khadr and Hamdan had been classified "enemy combatants", they had not been tagged as "unlawful enemy combatants" as required by new rules drawn up by the US congress. Ah, foiled by a typo...

Of course the Pentagon & Whitehouse are all pissy about this, but hey, you guys draft up the rules, and don't follow them, and then expect a court to side with you? News flash, judges of all stripes HATE IT when you don't have your paperwork in order. Because it wastes their time.

Sullivan said the dismissals have "huge" impact because none of the detainees held at the isolated military base in southeast Cuba had been found to be "unlawful" enemy combatants.

"It is not just a technicality: it's the latest demonstration that this newest system just does not work," he told journalists. "It is a system of justice that does not comport with American values."

Sullivan said that to reclassify them as "unlawful", the whole review system would need a time-consuming overhaul.

[Tollwutig]

Judges throw out Guantanamo cases (http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/C9379679-EBBF-4736-A024-B77392C9F6DF.htm)Ah, foiled by a typo...

Of course the Pentagon & Whitehouse are all pissy about this, but hey, you guys draft up the rules, and don't follow them, and then expect a court to side with you? News flash, judges of all stripes HATE IT when you don't have your paperwork in order. Because it wastes their time.

Yeah I heard about this, even when Bush has all of the cards stacked in his favor. (appoints the prosecutors, the defense, the judges, and got congress to write the system he wanted) he still can't get this the way he wants it. Kind of sad or maybe should tell him he's just too dumb to realize you can't hold people from another country indefinitely because they hate you and your policies.

[Pelor]

BTW, how the hell can an Atheist be fundamentalist? You're assuming that there's some common doctrine to atheism that can be taken to an extreme level.
The same way a theist can be fundamentalist. There's no common doctrine to that either.

Ayn Rand seemed to be a little nutty, if you ask me.

[Jabrwock]

The same way a theist can be fundamentalist. There's no common doctrine to that either.
Yeah, numbers have nothing to do with fundamentalism. You can be the only one in your "religion", and still be a fundamentalist...

[Jabrwock]

Dutch relieved but ruffled by kidney hoax (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6714287.stm)Could BNN's Big Donor Show really be as "crazy" and "unethical" as it was cracked up to be?

Broadcaster BNN kept its cards close to its chest, and during the programme's final moments it became clear why.

Lisa, the terminally ill woman who was giving away her kidney as a grand prize, turned out to be Leonie, an actress. Apparently it was a stunt to raise awareness of the plight of people needing organ transplants, BNN's founder died 5 years ago waiting for a new kidney.All BNN chairman Laurens Drillich was prepared to disclose was that the three contestants knew what they were doing, and were involved not just because of the kidney but because they wanted to make a statement.

A statement about long waiting lists, falling numbers of donors and the Dutch government's failure to tackle the issue. The 3 contestants spent the whole year still on the national waiting lists, and during the entire show, none of the 3 managed to find a suitable donor...

[Demontestament]

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, former chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney, was sentenced Tuesday to 30 months in prison for lying to investigators looking into the leak of a CIA operative's identity.

He also was fined $250,000. Libby was convicted March 6 of four counts in a five-count indictment alleging perjury, obstruction of justice and making false statements to FBI investigators.

He plans to appeal the verdict.

The 30-month sentence was for the obstruction of justice charge. Libby received shorter sentences on the other counts, to run concurrently.

"People who occupy these types of positions, where they have the welfare and security of the nation in their hands, have a special obligation to not do anything that might create a problem," U.S. District Judge Reggie B. Walton said, according to The Associated Press.

Libby was found guilty in March of lying to investigators about what he told reporters about Valerie Plame, whose identity as a CIA operative was leaked to the media in 2003.

Libby has maintained his innocence ever since he was indicted and resigned in October 2005.

Libby spoke briefly at the sentencing hearing, telling the judge, "It is respectfully my hope that the court will consider, along with the jury verdict, my whole life," the AP reported.

Among those in the packed courtroom were Libby's wife, Harriet Grant, sitting with conservative commentator Mary Matalin, a former Cheney aide, the AP said.

On Tuesday, the judge released dozens of letters written to him by Libby's supporters and detractors, including former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and former U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. John Bolton.

In one letter, Robert Blackwill, who served as presidential envoy to Iraq and in several other posts under President Bush, said he has known Libby for 20 years.

"During these years at the White House, I encountered no one more driven by analytical temperament, fairness of mind and sound policy reasoning than Scooter Libby," Blackwill said.

"Mr. Libby in my judgment has been, over the decades, an exemplary public policy practitioner."

Another person, whose signature was redacted, wrote, "I am writing to urge that Scooter Libby receive the maximum possible sentence. Due to the crimes for which he was convicted, we may never know of the more substantial criminal activities for which he served as a firewall."

The case involves statements Libby made to the FBI and a grand jury during their probe into how the covert identity of CIA operative Valerie Plame was leaked. Libby was the only person charged in the probe. He was not accused of actually leaking classified material.

Plame's name became public when Robert Novak named her in his column on July 14, 2003. Her husband, former ambassador Joseph Wilson, had openly questioned the Bush administration's basis for invading Iraq. (Timeline of key events in investigation)

Former Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage has admitted he disclosed the information to a reporter. Novak pointed to another "senior administration official" -- Bush political adviser Karl Rove -- as the second source for his column.

After the jury returned its verdict against Libby on March 6, lead defense attorney Ted Wells appeared on the courthouse steps with Libby and his other attorneys and declared, "We have every confidence Mr. Libby ultimately will be vindicated." Wells said he believes his client is "totally innocent and that he did not do anything wrong."

Cheney has continued to express support and empathy for his former chief of staff, and it's possible Libby could be granted a presidential pardon before the end of President Bush's term.


Only 30 ****ing months? Jeez it must be nice to be a lieing corrupt scumbag and at the same time a buddy of the president. You do something really bad and basicaly get a slap on the wrist.

[Jabrwock]

Only 30 ****ing months? Jeez it must be nice to be a lieing corrupt scumbag and at the same time a buddy of the president. You do something really bad and basicaly get a slap on the wrist.
Max for perjury in a US federal court is 5 years. So 2 1/2 years + large fine sounds about right.

[Demontestament]

Max for perjury in the US is 5 years. So 2 1/2 years + large fine sounds about right.

yeah but ten to one his ass gets a pardon and the fine waved. Even if he does spend time behind bars it is in some lush prison with all the other people convicted of fraud.

[Jabrwock]

yeah but ten to one his ass gets a pardon and the fine waved. Even if he does spend time behind bars it is in some lush prison with all the other people convicted of fraud.
Could be, but that's better than what the Whitehouse was arguing before, which was that he shouldn't be on trial at all... A pardon at least IS legal...

[Jabrwock]

Update on the Gitmo trials:

No appeals court (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19044292/)Prosecuting attorneys in both cases indicated they would appeal the dismissals. But the court designated to hear the appeals — known as the court of military commissions review — doesn’t even exist yet, said Marine Col. Dwight Sullivan, chief of military defense attorneys at Guantanamo Bay.Ha!

And it gets trickier...The distinction between classifications of enemy combatants is important because if they were “lawful,” they would be entitled to prisoner of war status under the Geneva Conventions.

A Pentagon spokesman said the issue was little more than semantics.

Navy Cmdr. Jeffrey Gordon said the entire Guantanamo system deals with people who act as “unlawful enemy combatants,” operating outside any internationally recognized military, without uniforms or other things that make them party to the Geneva Conventions.

“It is our belief that the concept was implicit that all the Guantanamo detainees who were designated as ’enemy combatants’ ... were in fact unlawful,” Gordon said.

But Morris said the Military Commissions Act defines a lawful enemy combatant, in addition to a uniformed fighter belonging to a regular force — as “a member of a militia, volunteer corps or organized resistance movement belonging to a state party engaged in such hostilities and who meets four additional criteria.”

[John]

Darwin and Huxley were both agnostics. It's not "our theory", really. It just makes a ****load of sense.

It does. I'm not denying it.

That, and there's actual observable evidence to evolution.

BTW, how the hell can an Atheist be fundamentalist? You're assuming that there's some common doctrine to atheism that can be taken to an extreme level.

I'm not denying that. But there are some things Evolution cannot explain (though it's not really it's job to), like why do we exsist? What started it all (before the big bang and whatnot).

You have an LJ, right? I was part of the Atheist LJ community for a short time. Some of the people there are bat**** insane. There are fundie Atheist as much as there are fundie Christians or Muslims or Jews.

I'm an agonist. I know evolution is true. There's a lot of evidence to support that. But what I don't know is how this universe began. Or why. Or where we go after we die.

And I'm not going to buy into bat**** theories religions throw at me. about God/Gods/Godess/Godesses/ and whatnot. Nor am I going to believe that there is no God/Gods/Godess/Godesses.

Truth is, we know **** when it comes to it.

Only 30 ****ing months? Jeez it must be nice to be a lieing corrupt scumbag and at the same time a buddy of the president. You do something really bad and basicaly get a slap on the wrist.

I wonder if he's going to share a cell with Paris Hilton.

[Jabrwock]

Thing is though, is that it's not an argument between us. Even Hawking has agreed that there could very well be divine intervention prior to the Big Bang, because we really don't know, and until we can measure outside space-time, we won't, because the Big Bang created both...

Between then and now though, processes seem to work just fine without any intervention.

Creationists can't seperate Evolution from BigBang, because in their world, they are both part of a single process, instead of two seperate processes that occured 15 billion or more years apart. Both interfere in their view of the universe, so both must be heathenistic foolishness designed by Satan to confuse you...

[Tollwutig]

Scooter Libby will of course appeal and tie things up in Court until at least January 2009, when he will drop his appeal and take a Presidential pardon.

[Jabrwock]

Crackdown on lunar-fuelled crime (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/kent/6723911.stm)Extra police officers are to patrol the streets of Brighton on nights when there is a full moon.

It follows research by the Sussex force which concluded there was a rise in violent incidents when the moon was full - and also on paydays.

Insp Andy Parr said he compared crime statistics for Brighton and Hove with lunar graphs to discover the trend. AwoooooooooOOOOooOOOOoo! :D

[Scoops]

Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything that mindbogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof of the nonexistence of God. The argument goes something like this:

“I refuse to prove that I exist,” says God, “for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.”

“But,” says man, “the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn´t it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don´t. QED.”

“Oh dear,” says God, “I hadn´t thought of that,” and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.

My problem with all these creation museums is that they seem to be doing exactly what Douglas Adams described - trying to prove God exists. You can't do it. Proving something is antithetical to faith. Faith is the foundation of religion. If you're "proving" God exists, all you've proven is that you didn't believe to begin with.

That said, as has been pointed out, you can totally believe in creation and still accept evolution. I believe some higher power created the universe via the big bang, and things just ran from there. If you want to call that higher power God or magic or Steve, then knock yourself out. If you want to believe that God or magic or Steve is still influencing life, getting people to write books and sending his kids to earth, then knock yourself out. You can't prove God created the earth. You can't prove Jesus was God's son. You either believe it, or you don't.

[Hannah]

Crackdown on lunar-fuelled crime (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/kent/6723911.stm)AwoooooooooOOOOooOOOOoo! :D

Hmm, I've read about similar studies before... apparently crime increases all over the place on a full moon, though that might just be a side effect of greater visibility or something.

[Picho]

Ja, though it may not be the visability of the criminals but the cops.

"We should ban the moon! for it the cause of crime around the world and little children are exposed to its harmful mind effecting radiation! Save the Children from the moon!"

[Demontestament]

Ja, though it may not be the visability of the criminals but the cops.

"We should ban the moon! for it the cause of crime around the world and little children are exposed to its harmful mind effecting radiation! Save the Children from the moon!"

It is a hyper violent Lunar Simulator!

[steelcobra]

I know when I worked at Target the full moon nights were always ****ed up in some way.

[Demontestament]

ATLANTA, Georgia (AP) -- The mother of missing teenager Natalee Holloway and the father of slain child beauty queen JonBenet Ramsey have become friends, the attorney they share said Monday.

Lawyer Lin Wood declined to describe their relationship as romantic, however.

"I would describe them as friends who have a great deal of admiration for each other," Wood said of Beth Twitty and John Ramsey.

Wood told The Associated Press they "share common interests and concerns related to their children, particularly with respect to the actions of law enforcement and the media in response to those tragic losses."

Twitty and Ramsey met late last year through an organization that arranges speaking engagements, Wood said.

Twitty has been married twice, separating from George Twitty on December 15. Ramsey's wife, Patsy Ramsey, died in June 2006 of ovarian cancer.

JonBenet Ramsey was reported missing from her family's Boulder, Colorado, home by her wealthy parents on the morning after Christmas 1996. The 6-year-old's body was found in the basement. She was strangled.

Holloway, 18, disappeared in Aruba in May 2005 during a trip with high school classmates. Police spent months searching for her to no avail.

Both cases remain unsolved.



What an odd couple. He murdered his daughter and got away with it, she lost her mind and now blames an entire country for the murder of her daughter and demands people be tried under us law. This is just going to be full of lulz.

[nightwng2000]

"Twitty and Ramsey"

Sounds like a Burlesque show headliner duo.

[Thefremen]

What an odd couple. He murdered his daughter and got away with it, she lost her mind and now blames an entire country for the murder of her daughter and demands people be tried under us law. This is just going to be full of lulz.

Wow. So the mom killed Natalie, or they sent her there for a pro to do the job.

[nightwng2000]

Teacher sues kids over teddy bear movie

http://www.cnn.com/2007/LAW/06/01/teddy.bear.attack.ap/index.html

"Story Highlights

• 4 boys made movie where evil teddy bear tells other toys to kill math teacher
• Teacher in movie has same name as real-life math teacher, who is suing
• Suit says movie has "graphic ... violence," could be expected to cause "trauma"
• Boys' lawyer: Movie scenes involve stuffed animals and boys saying "yeoowww""

"Christine Clevenger said the movie deeply upset her.
"The only thing I can say is they have wronged my husband. He's a very good person, he is a wonderful teacher, he's a wonderful father and he's a wonderful husband," she said."

Well, see, that's YOUR preception of him. That doesn't mean everyone else, especially his students, has the same preception.

[Demontestament]

Teacher sues kids over teddy bear movie

http://www.cnn.com/2007/LAW/06/01/teddy.bear.attack.ap/index.html

"Story Highlights

• 4 boys made movie where evil teddy bear tells other toys to kill math teacher
• Teacher in movie has same name as real-life math teacher, who is suing
• Suit says movie has "graphic ... violence," could be expected to cause "trauma"
• Boys' lawyer: Movie scenes involve stuffed animals and boys saying "yeoowww""

"Christine Clevenger said the movie deeply upset her.
"The only thing I can say is they have wronged my husband. He's a very good person, he is a wonderful teacher, he's a wonderful father and he's a wonderful husband," she said."

Well, see, that's YOUR preception of him. That doesn't mean everyone else, especially his students, has the same preception.

Case thrown out in 5,4,3,2........

This is total bull****, this guy is in no way shape or form harmed by this ****ing movie. Just another douche bag who wants to get back at some kids after they made an ass out of him.

[bayushisan]

I'm all for freedom of speech, but along with that comes responsibility; something I've advocated before.

Some states do have laws regarding the use of a person's name or likeness in movies and television productions, its why you see those admonitions at the end of movie credits that say any similarities are a coincidence. It could also be argued that using the teachers name in the context of saying he should be murdered, while maybe not illegal, is certainly something that can be sued about in civil court.

[KN]

Teacher sues kids over teddy bear movie

http://www.cnn.com/2007/LAW/06/01/teddy.bear.attack.ap/index.html

"Story Highlights

• 4 boys made movie where evil teddy bear tells other toys to kill math teacher
• Teacher in movie has same name as real-life math teacher, who is suing
• Suit says movie has "graphic ... violence," could be expected to cause "trauma"
• Boys' lawyer: Movie scenes involve stuffed animals and boys saying "yeoowww""

"Christine Clevenger said the movie deeply upset her.
"The only thing I can say is they have wronged my husband. He's a very good person, he is a wonderful teacher, he's a wonderful father and he's a wonderful husband," she said."

Well, see, that's YOUR preception of him. That doesn't mean everyone else, especially his students, has the same preception.

I dream of a nation where anyone sueing for such reasons is granted the death penalty.

[Demontestament]

I dream of a nation where anyone sueing for such reasons is granted the death penalty.

Vote for me as president and I will make it so :D

[Demontestament]

ROME, Italy (CNN) -- Vatican police have detained a man who tried to jump into the back of the open-air vehicle carrying Pope Benedict XVI to his weekly address in St. Peter's Square.

The man, aged between 20 and 30, was not armed and the pope's life was never in danger, Vatican spokesman Father Federico Lombardi told CNN. It is not clear if he will be charged.

Video showed the man, wearing a red t-shirt, dark shorts, a baseball cap and sunglasses, launch himself over a crowd of people waving flags and holding banners on the side of the street as the popemobile passed by.

The man then jumped over the barricade and seemed to touch the back of the vehicle before at least six men in dark suits wrestled him to the ground. (Watch the pope's security guards wrestle the man to the ground )

The pontiff continued waving and did not look behind him where the incident took place.

After being questioned by Vatican police, the man will be handed over to Italian police for further questioning.

Every Wednesday, the pope gives an address, or general audience, to crowds who gather in St. Peter's Square.

Although it was quickly over, the incident recalled the attempt on the life of Benedict's predecessor John Paul II on May 13, 1981, also in St. Peter's Square.

Turkish assailant Ali Agca shot and seriously wounded the Polish pope as he was leaving the square following a general audience.

CNN's Alessio Vinci says people entering the square are screened with metal detectors. "There are thousands, sometimes hundreds of thousands of people in the square, so security screening can be difficult."



:eek: Now there is something you don't see every day.

[KN]

..and so, I wasted 20.000 dollars >_>

[Theory?]

"wooooo! I Love The Pope!!! Yeah God!!! Wooooo!!!!!!"

[Demontestament]

I would not want to jump onto a vehicle carrying a man that could ****ing kill you with force lightning or force choke you to death.

[KN]

I would not want to jump onto a vehicle carrying a man that could ****ing kill you with force lightning or force choke you to death.

But what if you roll twenties?

[Tollwutig]

I dream of a nation where anyone sueing for such reasons is granted the death penalty.

Vote for me as president and I will make it so :D

Then you dream of the world as I would rule it. Of course the sterilization of stupid people would slowly make it so such things would not occur, and the fact that Teachers would be amongst the most honored, highly paid profession, and the most difficult to become.

[KN]

Rudy, you naughty man! (http://www.jonesreport.com/articles/050607_reporter_arrested_giuliani_orders.html)

Manchester, NH - Freelance reporter Matt Lepacek, reporting for Infowars.com, was arrested for asking a question to one of Giuliani's staff members in a press conference. The press secretary identified the New York based reporter as having previously asked Giuliani about his prior knowledge of WTC building collapses and ordered New Hampshire state police to arrest him.

[Demontestament]

But what if you roll twenties?

All I roll is Twenties, but even a twenty will not save you from his attacks. Nobody can save, unless you are God.

[Tollwutig]

And here is why Iraq will not remain a nation after we leave

ANKARA, Turkey — Several thousand Turkish troops crossed into northern Iraq early Wednesday to chase Kurdish guerrillas who operate from bases there, according to an Associated Press report that cited anonymous Turkish officials, but the White House is hearing otherwise.

National Security Council spokesman Gordon Johndroe, traveling with President Bush in Rostock, Germany, said the Turkish government reported to the NSC that the press reports are incorrect. Johndroe said U.S. officials in the region have also made their own assessment and concur that no incursion has taken place.

Turkey has been fighting a Kurdish terrorist group, the Kurdistan Workers Party, or PKK, since it first took up arms in 1984. More than 30,000 people, mostly in southeast Turkey, have been killed in fighting between the militants and Turkish army since that time.

Does anyone seriously believe that the Kurds in Iraq won't once we're out of the way won't help their brother's in Turkey establish their own Kurdistan? The Kurds want their own nation the same as Israel and they are willing to wait it out to get it.

[Tollwutig]

WASHINGTON — A judge who was seeking $67 million from a dry cleaners that lost his pants has loosened the belt on his lawsuit. Now, he's asking for only $54 million, according to a May 30 court filing in D.C. Superior Court.

Roy L. Pearson, a District of Columbia administrative law judge, first sued Custom Cleaners over a pair of pants that went missing two years ago. He was seeking about $65 million under the D.C. consumer protection act and almost $2 million in common law claims.

• Click here to watch video.

He is now focusing his claims on signs in the shop that have since been removed. The suit alleges that Jin Nam Chung, Soo Chung and Ki Chung committed fraud and misled consumers with signs that claimed "Satisfaction Guaranteed" and "Same Day Service."

But Chris Manning, the Chungs' attorney, says that can be considered fraud only if the signs misled a "reasonable" person. No reasonable person, he says, would interpret them to be an unconditional promise of satisfaction.

This is an update in that the guy doing the suing has dropped the price tag from 67 Million to 54 Million, I guess he thought that 67 million might be considered frivolous. :D

[beemoh]

All I roll is Twenties, but even a twenty will not save you from his attacks. Nobody can save, unless you are God.

Or Jesus, obv.

[Demontestament]

Or Jesus, obv.

No Jesus doesn't have a good enough Fortitude save, I mean he did die on the cross.

[Jabrwock]

No Jesus doesn't have a good enough Fortitude save, I mean he did die on the cross.
Yeah, he just knew a REALLY good cleric. ;)

[KN]

No Jesus doesn't have a good enough Fortitude save, I mean he did die on the cross.

Or did he? Some of his other actions suggest he was very very good at illusions.

[Tollwutig]

More fun News

Navy Doctor Charged With Taping Midshipman Having Sex at His Home
ANNAPOLIS, Md. — The military has charged a Navy doctor who hosted Naval Academy midshipmen at his home with secretly videotaping the students having sex.

Cmdr. Kevin Ronan is charged with the military equivalent of 18 counts relating to conduct unbecoming an officer and obstruction of justice, as well as violating federal wiretapping law and a Maryland law against making secret recordings, according to a news release from the Navy's Bureau of Medicine and Surgery.

A hearing, similar to a civilian grand jury hearing, is scheduled for Monday at the Washington Navy Yard to determine whether the charges will go forward. They could result in a court-martial, be handled administratively or be dismissed.

Defense attorney William Ferris denied the allegations Tuesday, saying "none of this happened." He said his client is a victim of an extortion attempt by a former student.

"I believe the former midshipman, who was expelled for academic reasons and who wanted Commander Ronan to give him money to complete his education, fabricated this situation in order to extort money from Commander Ronan, and the situation got out of that young man's control," Ferris said.

Read more http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,278352,00.html


And this little fun bit
Man Sues Health Drink Maker Over Erection
NEW YORK — A man has sued the maker of the health drink Boost Plus, claiming the vitamin-enriched beverage gave him an erection that would not subside and caused him to be hospitalized.

The lawsuit filed by Christopher Woods of New York said he bought the nutrition beverage made by the pharmaceutical company Novartis AG at a drugstore on June 5, 2004, and drank it.

Woods' court papers say he woke up the next morning "with an erection that would not subside" and sought treatment that day for the condition, called severe priapism.

They say Woods, 29, underwent surgery for implantation of a Winter shunt, which moves blood from one area to another.

The lawsuit, filed late Monday, says Woods later had problems that required a hospital visit and penile artery embolization, a way of closing blood vessels. Closing off some blood flow prevents engorgement and lessens the likelihood of an erection.

Woods' lawsuit, which seeks unspecified damages, names Novartis Consumer Health Inc. as a defendant. A spokeswoman for the company, Brandi Robinson, said Tuesday the company was aware of the lawsuit but does not comment on pending litigation.
Woods' lawyer did not return telephone calls for comment Tuesday.

Novartis' Boost Plus Web site describes the drink as "a great tasting, high calorie, nutritionally complete oral supplement for people who require extra energy and protein in a limited volume," in vanilla, chocolate and strawberry.

Ya know if you quit watching all that porn....

And we can thank the Dutch for this one:
Just Add Water
Dutch Students Make Alcohol Powder
MSTERDAM — Dutch students have developed powdered alcohol which they say can be sold legally to minors.

The latest innovation in inebriation, called Booz2Go, is available in 20-gram packets that cost 1-1.5 euros ($1.35-$2).

Top it up with water and you have a bubbly, lime-colored and -flavored drink with just 3 percent alcohol content.

"We are aiming for the youth market. They are really more into it because you can compare it with Bacardi-mixed drinks," 20-year-old Harm van Elderen told Reuters.

Van Elderen and four classmates at Helicon Vocational Institute, about an hour's drive from Amsterdam, came up with the idea as part of their final-year project.

"Because the alcohol is not in liquid form, we can sell it to people below 16," said project member Martyn van Nierop.

The legal age for drinking alcohol and smoking is 16 in the Netherlands.
In Germany, alcopops -- sweet drinks containing alcohol and in powder form -- caused quite a stir when launched on to the market. Alcohol powder, classified as a flavouring, was sold in the United States three years ago.

The students said companies interested in making the product commercially could avoid taxes because the alcohol was in powder form. A number of companies are interested, they said.

Now this could make the movies much more fun. :D

[Jabrwock]

And we can thank the Dutch for this one:
Just Add Water
Now this could make the movies much more fun. :DHehe. I'll have a large popcorn and a rum and coke. Er I mean coke! No rum! Not yet. ehehheheh

[Demontestament]

More fun News



Read more http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,278352,00.html


-.- No comment

And this little fun bit


Ya know if you quite watching all that porn....[\QUOTE]

I see red Bull has joined with Viagra....It will give you wings!!!

[QUOTE]And we can thank the Dutch for this one:
Just Add Water


Now this could make the movies much more fun. :D

:eek: Give them the ****ing Noble Prize! :D

[nightwng2000]

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/06/04/Worldandnation/19_years_in_coma__wor.shtml

This is what happens when you hit that snooze button one too many times. "One more minute" turns into democracy and a market economy.

Ok, so it was caused by an injury. Still, look at everything else he's missed.

[Jabrwock]

Presidential pardon has it's own set of problems (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19058717/)If Bush were to decide to pardon Libby, he would have to short-circuit the normal process. Under Justice Department guidelines, Libby would not qualify for a pardon. The guidelines require applicants to wait at least five years after being released from prison. The review process after the submission of an application typically can take two years before a decision is made. During more than six years in office, Bush has pardoned just 113 people, nearly a modern low, and never anyone who had not yet completed his sentence. He has commuted three sentences.

But the president's power to pardon under Article II of the Constitution is essentially unrestricted, so he can ignore the guidelines if he chooses. Other presidents who did so stirred furors, most prominently when Gerald R. Ford pardoned his Watergate-stained predecessor, Richard M. Nixon; when George H.W. Bush issued his Iran-contra pardons; and when Bill Clinton in his last hours in office pardoned financier Marc Rich, Whitewater figure Susan McDougal, his brother Roger Clinton and scores of others.

[Thefremen]

More fun News



Read more http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,278352,00.html


And this little fun bit


Ya know if you quit watching all that porn....

And we can thank the Dutch for this one:
Just Add Water


Now this could make the movies much more fun. :D

The erection guy was named Woods...

[nightwng2000]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19065065/

Geez, why the hell can't psychopaths just go play violent video games? You can kill as many people as you want, no living human being is harmed, and you don't have to worry about having done something you can never take back.

And, yes, I'm being serious. Why can't people just understand. In fully understanding the fantasy/fictional worlds as being seperate from the real/non-fictional world, you can do so many things in the fantasy world over and over again, and no one in the real world is hurt and no crime has been commited. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

[nightwng2000]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19074510/

".....

Law changed in 2006
If Wilson had had sexual intercourse with the 15-year-old he would have fallen under Georgia's "Romeo and Juliet" exception. But under the law in 2003, oral sex between teens constituted aggravated child molestation and carried a mandatory sentence.

Georgia lawmakers changed the law in 2006 to make consensual oral sex between teens a misdemeanor punishable by a maximum of one year behind bars. Offenders do not have to register as sex offenders, as Wilson will be required to do.

But the state's top court ruled the 2006 change couldn't be applied retroactively to Wilson's case. An attempt earlier this year to pass a bill that would provide a remedy for Wilson has stalled.
Wilson's most vocal critic has been Georgia's top Republican senator, Eric Johnson, of Savannah.

"This was not two star-crossed lovers on a date," Johnson wrote in an opinion piece opposing the bill written to help Wilson.
The five other male partygoers took plea deals. Wilson's case was the only one that went to trial.

Wilson's mother, Juannessa Bennett, said outside the courthouse Wednesday that he has rejected plea deals from prosecutors because he would still need to register as a sex offender.

"A sex offender registry is lifetime," Bennett said."

An interesting issue. While I agree that this wasn't an issue of "star-crossed lovers", the change in the law was correct and it should have been retroactive. With the issue of alcohol and drugs, I'm wondering if the law change really should apply to this guy. I don't know the specifics when it applied to him with the drugs and alcohol or with the 15 year old girl, so I really can't say.

[nightwng2000]

And the substitute teacher who could have been sentenced to 40 years for it?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19074272/

"Superior Court Judge Hillary Strackbein granted Amero’s motion for a retrial Wednesday after determining that a Norwich police detective who was called as an expert prosecution witness had given “erroneous” testimony about the computer. "

"Assistant State’s Attorney David Smith acknowledged Wednesday that erroneous information about the computer was presented during trial. He said the errors came to light when prosecutors sent the computer to a state laboratory for examination after the trial."

"Several experts showed up Wednesday at New London Superior Court to support Amero, including consultant Herb Horner, a defense witness whose company examined a copy of the computer’s hard drive.

“During the copy process we received several ‘Security Alerts!’ from our antivirus program (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19074272/#). We analyzed the activity log and noted that there were spyware/adware programs installed on the hard drive,” Horner wrote in a report. “We ran two other adware/spyware detection programs and more spyware/adware tracking cookie/programs were discovered.”

But most of Horner’s evidence was barred at trial after the prosecution objected. Horner said Wednesday that Amero would not have been convicted if he had been allowed to present all of his evidence."

Does the name "Nifong" mean anything to these prosecutors?

[Tollwutig]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19074510/

".....

Law changed in 2006
If Wilson had had sexual intercourse with the 15-year-old he would have fallen under Georgia's "Romeo and Juliet" exception. But under the law in 2003, oral sex between teens constituted aggravated child molestation and carried a mandatory sentence.

Georgia lawmakers changed the law in 2006 to make consensual oral sex between teens a misdemeanor punishable by a maximum of one year behind bars. Offenders do not have to register as sex offenders, as Wilson will be required to do.

But the state's top court ruled the 2006 change couldn't be applied retroactively to Wilson's case. An attempt earlier this year to pass a bill that would provide a remedy for Wilson has stalled.
Wilson's most vocal critic has been Georgia's top Republican senator, Eric Johnson, of Savannah.

"This was not two star-crossed lovers on a date," Johnson wrote in an opinion piece opposing the bill written to help Wilson.
The five other male partygoers took plea deals. Wilson's case was the only one that went to trial.

Wilson's mother, Juannessa Bennett, said outside the courthouse Wednesday that he has rejected plea deals from prosecutors because he would still need to register as a sex offender.

"A sex offender registry is lifetime," Bennett said."

An interesting issue. While I agree that this wasn't an issue of "star-crossed lovers", the change in the law was correct and it should have been retroactive. With the issue of alcohol and drugs, I'm wondering if the law change really should apply to this guy. I don't know the specifics when it applied to him with the drugs and alcohol or with the 15 year old girl, so I really can't say.

I heard about this as well today. The issue is that the Girl has repeatedly stated that this was consensual. There is reason this guy should not be labeled a sex offender. Really sex offender laws need to be revisited nation wide and a national policy should be put in place.

Edit: typo

[KN]

Sex offender law is broooken x;x

[MachShot]

Personally, I believe that consensual sex between teens should not be labeled as a crime at all. Anyone under 21 should be able to be with anyone under 21. An individual who is 21 should be allowed the legal privilege of 16+ and 22 should be allowed to be with 17+. Illegal consensual sex should be no more than a misdemeanor and should never be a factor in becoming a registered sex offender. Anything beyond such lacks justice, rationality, and sanity. Sure, I think teens should wait until marriage for that type of bond, but criminalizing a moral that has a mostly religious base to it is unconstitutional in my mind.

[nightwng2000]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19065065/

""The arrest of Edwin Hall is the result of thousands of hours of investigation over the last four days."

:eek:

And they can divide by zero too I bet.

[nightwng2000]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/hockey/nhl/specials/playoffs/2007/06/06/ducks.sens.ap/index.html?cnn=yes

Ok, I'm not a sport fan, let alone hockey, but I recognize the name "The Mighty Ducks".

And their first Stanley Cup win is a big deal, to them and their fans at least.

"Anaheim is the first West Coast city to lay claim to the silver chalice since Victoria of the Western Canada Hockey League defeated Montreal in 1925, two years before NHL clubs began exclusively playing for the Cup."

[nightwng2000]

http://www.gearlog.com/2007/06/bizarre_japanese_robot_baby_ba.php

"We are not the droids you are looking for." - Andromeda

[John]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/hockey/nhl/specials/playoffs/2007/06/06/ducks.sens.ap/index.html?cnn=yes

Ok, I'm not a sport fan, let alone hockey, but I recognize the name "The Mighty Ducks".

And their first Stanley Cup win is a big deal, to them and their fans at least.

"Anaheim is the first West Coast city to lay claim to the silver chalice since Victoria of the Western Canada Hockey League defeated Montreal in 1925, two years before NHL clubs began exclusively playing for the Cup."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaheim_Ducks#Current_roster

28 players. Of that, 19 players were Canadian.

^_^

[Tollwutig]

Report: Paris Hilton out of jail

LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) -- Paris Hilton was freed from jail Thursday morning, just three days after she began serving what was to be a 23-day sentence for violating probation, according to celebrity Web site TMZ.com.

TMZ.com quoted what it called "unimpeachable sources" saying Hilton left the Century Regional Detention Facility in Lynwood, California, early Thursday.

The Web site said L.A. County Sheriff's Department would hold a news conference at 7 a.m. Pacific time (10 a.m. Eastern) to discuss her release.

Hilton checked into the facility Sunday night to begin serving a sentence for violating probation in an alcohol-related reckless driving case. The sentence, originally 45 days, was reduced to 23 for various reasons, including good behavior.



As an update since this is on all the news channels in front of me, she has to be on House Arrest for 40 days. Poor poor thing.

Wow a 3 day jail sentence for a DUI, don't you wish you were filthy rich? This just shows American justice is a scam.

[Jabrwock]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaheim_Ducks#Current_roster

28 players. Of that, 19 players were Canadian.

^_^
Yeah, several Saskatchewan towns were cheering for Anaheim, because 3-4 team members were from the small-town prairies... :D

[Jabrwock]

As an update since this is on all the news channels in front of me, she has to be on House Arre