Lyndon LaRouche Jr., his wife and their followers

[Soldat_Louis]

In previous GP forum, I opened a thread about Lyndon LaRouche and his wife, Helga Zepp-LaRouche, because although neither these politicians, nor their "movement" (that I'd rather call a cult) can be taken seriously, their initiative called "National Commission against the "New Violence" (http://www.schillerinstitute.org/new_viol/ctte_vs_newviolence.html), initiated in 2000 and reiterated in 2002, was the worst piece of anti-game paranoia and hysteria I had ever read (you can also take a look here (http://american_almanac.tripod.com/violpt.htm) and here (http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/articles/New_violence.html))

I could summarize by saying that in their opinion, there is a vast and organized conspiracy from the "oligarchy" and "military utopians" in order to program and train "Nintendo killers" for future wars. But it would be unfair : all their articles deserve to be read, they're too funny and too astonishing.

You won't be surprised to have Dave Grossman's and Jack Thompson's names mentioned. And you won't be surprised if I tell you that they consider Dungeons and Dagons as "satanic", as well as Harry Potter, Pokémon, heavy metal, rock'n'roll, rap... In fact, they also hate jazz, country, the Beatles, Voltaire, Aristote, Hegel, Sartre, chess and Euclidian geometry. They talk about all that essentially on the Schiller Institute's page, but if you want the direct links, I'll search them for you.

In fact, what surprised me was not to hear of them after Dawson College shootings and Emsdetten shootings. I wonder where they were, but I expected, at least, to hear of them after Virginia Tech Massacre. Bingo ! I've just read two press releases on their website : this one (http://www.larouchepub.com/pr/2007/070418va_tech_shooter.html) and this one (http://www.larouchepub.com/pr_lar/2007/lar_pac/070418videogames.html). Now, the question is : how many people will take them seriously ? (except Jack Thompson, who seems moderate compare to them)

[kurisu7885]

So, essentially, these are anti free though/free will people.

[KN]

Chinpokomon?

[Soldat_Louis]

In order to tease you, just take a look at this paragraph :

In the case of the April 26, 2002 massacre at the Johann Gutenberg Gymnasium in Erfurt, Germany, 16 people were killed before the shooter, Robert Steinhäuser, committed suicide. EIR [Executive Intelligence Review, that belongs to LaRouche] reported May 10, 2002, the shooter's "mind had been conditioned by his obsession with killer video/computer games, such as "Ninja," "Doom," and "Counterstrike" (produced by the notorious firm, Sierra Entertainment). When he carried out his massacre, he was dressed in black with a black mask, imitating the Ninja warriors found in such killer games. A police raid on Steinhäuser's room found many such killer video games."

"Ninja"... I wonder : do Chuck Norris movies lead to killings ?

[KN]

I don't remember any particular game called Ninja.

Ah yes, the notorious Sierra firm.

[Soldat_Louis]

Well, here's a "ninja game" that makes me want to kill... its designers :

http://www.kwyxz.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/107525339900tm1.jpg

[KN]

Well, here's a "ninja game" that makes me want to kill... its designers :

http://www.kwyxz.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/107525339900tm1.jpg

Ah yes, the true horrors of the Video Game Crash.

[Ace_ofspade]

I think at this point, they're just bs'ing.

"The kid was asian, is there a video game called "Ninja"?"

"Um... who cares?"

EDIT-
“We’re getting killings which are caused by the use of Nintendo-style games, such as the game Pokémon, with children, and also with police and others. In the case of the Diallo shooting, the problem was that the Mayor of New York, like many other officials, has been training the police force in Nintendo-style killing techniques. . . . So we have Nintendo-killers.

/r/ ASCII of dissapointed Captain Picard with his face in his hands.

[KN]

/r/ ASCII of dissapointed Captain Picard with his face in his hands.

No, we need Grieving Jew here


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[Jabrwock]

They're accusing the US media of "bowing to Microsoft pressure" in removing references to Counterstrike from stories about the VT massacre.... Conspiracy!

Instead of the truth, that it was pulled because it was 4 years ago, and he hasn't played since, according to his roommates. But I guess they were part of the cover too!

http://mathaba.net/news/?x=553661

[Soldat_Louis]

Ooooohhh... A link that I didn't know yet. Thanks !

And I though no one would take Jack Thompson seriously... And I was afraid we wouldn't hear of LaRouche... In another site affiliated to him (http://www.larouchepac.com/), there are already no less than 11 articles about the video game connection with VT shootings.

For example, check this one (http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/breaking_news/2007/04/21/blood.shtml), or this one (http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/breaking_news/2007/04/21/larouche_games.shtml), where LaRouche clamis that "killer games must be outlawed".

[kurisu7885]

*headdeskheaddeskheaddesk* I can't this this, LaDouche is accusing a proven family oriented company of this. And no I will nor correct that spelling.

[Soldat_Louis]

And their paranoia goes on with this article (http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2007/3417va_tech_videos.html) written by Michelle Steinberg (who had already written a piece of anti-game hysteria 7 years ago (http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/articles/New_violence.html)). Excerpts :


Lyndon LaRouche and Helga Zepp-LaRouche have been right since Columbine. You won't stop school shooting sprees until the multibillion-dollar video-"game"-killing-simulator industry is stopped from brainwashing youth.
(...)
Within hours of the Virginia Tech killings—where 33 people died, and at least 15 more were injured—LaRouche outlined "critical questions" to be pursued in the investigation of the incident—questions that were framed by the campaign led by LaRouche, and his wife Helga Zepp-LaRouche, chairwoman of the Civil Rights Solidarity (BüSo) party of Germany to expose the video game industry for mental genocide , or "menticide," in both brainwashing young people with a cult of violence, and also training them to kill at the same time.
(...)
What had happened is that the powerful "video-game industry" had struck—running a major campaign to remove any reference to the game Counterstrike or any other video-game references from the major media coverage.

For over a decade, the video-game industry has been able to protect itself—with the help of powerful elected officials, like Sen. Joe Lieberman of Connecticut, from interference in the brainwashing of youth.

In the day following the April 16 Virginia Tech shootings, the "industry" was at it again, protecting their operations, including with an all-out media and Internet assault on attorney Jack Thompson, who had exposed the Counterstrike connection to the current case, even as he had exposed earlier connections of the Counterstrike game to deadly school massacres.
(...)

Oh my... :eek: (in fact, at every paragraph I quoted I wanted to say "Oh my !" out loud :eek: )

Edit : And I forgot this one (http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/breaking_news/2007/04/23/lyn_warning_games.shtml)

[Grahamr]

Jesus Christ.

I think they just inflicted "Menticide" on anyone reading this thread. They should be charged with war crimes!!!:mad:

In the day following the April 16 Virginia Tech shootings, the "industry" was at it again, protecting their operations, including with an all-out media and Internet assault on attorney Jack Thompson....

I Wish. :(

[Yukimura]

And their paranoia goes on with this article (http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2007/3417va_tech_videos.html) written by Michelle Steinberg (who had already written a piece of anti-game hysteria 7 years ago (http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/articles/New_violence.html)). Excerpts :



Oh my... :eek: (in fact, at every paragraph I quoted I wanted to say "Oh my !" out loud :eek: )

Edit : And I forgot this one (http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/breaking_news/2007/04/23/lyn_warning_games.shtml)

People like this should be sterilized to make sure they don't polute the gene pool.

[Demontestament]

Chinpokomon?

Got to Buy em' got to buy em' Chinpokomon!

I got shoe :D

oh yeah and these people are ****ing nuts to the point they want to kill free thought and have everyone be ****ing zombeis that follow their insane beliefs.

[BearDogg-X]

This worthless turd is considered to be a bigger gadfly than Jacky Boy, thus based on reading this thread, he's even more delusional than Jacky Boy, and that's saying something.

[mechboy]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on a sec here. Did I read things right? Does this guy believe honestly that Pokemon drives children to go on killing sprees?

:confused:

[kurisu7885]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on a sec here. Did I read things right? Does this guy believe honestly that Pokemon drives children to go on killing sprees?

:confused:

Sad part is I knew someone who thought the entire country of japan was in on that scheme.His entire theory was based around the fact that Robotech/Macross had some similar mecha designs to Mechwarrior/Battletech.

[kurisu7885]

In the day following the April 16 Virginia Tech shootings, the "industry" was at it again, protecting their operations, including with an all-out media and Internet assault on attorney Jack Thompson....

Wasn't, that, the other way around? :confused:

[Soldat_Louis]

Nothing new since last time, but take a look at last issue of EIR (http://www.larouchepub.com/eirtoc/2007/eirtoc_3417.html) (for [Executive Intelligence Review, one of LaRouche's publications).

It's a compilation of recent and past anti-game rants about the "new violence" campaign they started in 2000 (http://www.larouchepub.com/lar/2000/2722_new_violence.html) after the death of Amadou Diallo. In particular, it includes a speech (http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2007/3417grossman_reprint.html) made in 2000 and an interview (http://www.larouchepub.com/other/interviews/2002/2920hzl_grossman.html) made in 2002 with our old friend Dave Grossman.

And now some excerpts of LaRouche's 2000 speech, just for fun (emphasis by myself) :

(...)
Now, by "New Violence," we mean, by first approximation, "Nintendo killers" in the military. We mean the replacement of qualified police officers by "Nintendo cops." We mean "Nintendo kids" in the schools, from the ages of 6-16. This is where the core of the New Violence is located. It is not in the bullet, it is not in the axe, it is not in the hammer, it is not in the fist. The violence is not located in the physical act performed upon the victim. The New Violence is located in the peculiarly perverted minds of the perpetrators. The perpetrators are typically military professionals, trained by the official military, or trained by programs designed originally for the military. These are Nintendo-style brainwashing techniques. This means Nintendo cops, police officers who are not police officers any more. They're merely Nintendo-cop killers. They have no sense of a human relationship and their act, on the one hand, and the effect on the victim, on the other hand.

These are children who play Nintendo and Nintendo-style games, such as Pokémon, who are between the ages of 3 to 7-8--are being brainwashed into becoming rage-controlled killers, who will kill as an adult, in an adult manner, but with a childish mind which has no comprehension of the act which they're perpetrating. It's something which they are just compelled to do. Littleton is a paradigm of this problem.

The difference between the New Violence and the old, lies not in the victim, or what the victim suffers; it lies in the mind of the Nintendo-conditioned perpetrator. The controlling motivation lies in a computer program, not in the human behavior of the mind. This kind of motivation is peculiar to a society which is brainwashed into believing in what is called an "Information Society," as opposed to the pre-, so-called, Information Society. This causes a lot of controversy, because, when you get to the point of pointing out where Columbine began, pointing out where--occasions in New York and elsewhere, of Nintendo cops putting 41 bullets into a man who had no reason to be a suspect, before finding out who the man was....

The problem is, these acts have occurred; when you trace them back to the cause, to the Nintendo-style training programs, or the conditioning programs broadcast over the television networks, distributed as games by game companies, game-selling companies--are used to train cops, are used to brainwash the military the way the cops are brainwashed--you then have to say, "What's wrong with society?" This is the result of the Information Society.
(...)
Now the New Economy mentality is the same kind of thing as we're seeing in the Nintendo-killers in the military; we're seeing it the replacement of qualified policemen by quick-trained Nintento-killer cops. We're seeing it in Nintendo-killer children, our own children, in increasing numbers. Children from the ages of 6 to 16. We had a case recently of a victim of Pokémon--which is a killer program; if your child is watching Pokémon as an addict, look out! He may kill you, or he may kill himself.

This child, four years old, tried to fly out a window, and he flew to his death, because he believed he could fly, because he was so conditioned by Pokémon that he, as one of the players of Pokémon, believed he had the ability to fly. He flew: He flew to his death. Other children kill other children under the influence of Pokémon--specifically Pokémon. The same kind of games are being pushed in schools, the same methods; the same ideas are being pushed in the schools. So, our children are being destroyed under our eyes.
(...)
But society would not tolerate, would not take the Nintendo games to its heart, unless the society were morally sick, and therefore, we have to address the problem caused by the New Violence as the Nintendo mode of conditioning, of Information Society in general, but we have to recognize it's a symptom of a moral collapse of society.
(...)

Once again : Oh my... Oh my... :eek: :eek:

[kurisu7885]

Sooo, I was being brainwashed to step on turtles, even though I love turtles?

[Hank the Tank]

People like this should be sterilized to make sure they don't polute the gene pool.

Sterilized with bullets.

[Soldat_Louis]

And one more article (http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/breaking_news/2007/04/25/shooter.shtml), where we learn that everything is linked, that everyone (Microsoft, Doug Lowenstein, Take 2, Al Gore and Counter Strike) is related to everyone into a vast and powerful conspiracy... :rolleyes:

Edit : And I just found that old piece of crap (http://www.cecaust.com.au/pubs/pdfs/ncye09-05.pdf) from a Larouchian australian website. Excerpts :

Presently, there is a culture of death among young Australians, which was purposely created to desensitise and even terrify us. This culture is typified by rock music and video games, which were cooked up in British Intelligence's psychological warfare bureau, the Tavistock Institute, along with its U.S. spinoffs, in order to brainwash youth. These video games have created mass killers as seen at Columbine, Littleton and elsewhere, as well as zombifying anyone who plays them. Our generation was produced by our brainwashed parents' generation, the Baby Boomers, who were laboratory rats in the great social engineering experiment of Tavistock and the Congress for Cultural Freedom, which was unleashed beginning with the 1960s rock/drugs/sex counter-culture. This degenerate culture now rules the world. In its guise as empiricism, it is also the garbage drummed into you at uni.

I know I repeat myself, but... oh my ! :eek:

[Soldat_Louis]

Latest news from the LaRouche cult : we learn that Hillary Clinton must return a contribution (http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/breaking_news/2007/04/26/gt_auto.shtml) from a guy who is supposedly shareholder of Take 2. We also "learn" ( :p ) that Bill Gates invested a lot of money on video games (http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/breaking_news/2007/04/26/gates_videogames.shtml) and that he's related to the Washington Post via his wife.

I wonder how low they can sink... :rolleyes:

[Thefremen]

Latest news from the LaRouche cult : we learn that Hillary Clinton must return a contribution (http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/breaking_news/2007/04/26/gt_auto.shtml) from a guy who is supposedly shareholder of Take 2. We also "learn" ( :p ) that Bill Gates invested a lot of money on video games (http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/breaking_news/2007/04/26/gates_videogames.shtml) and that he's related to the Washington Post via his wife.

I wonder how low they can sink... :rolleyes:

Wow they're pretty damned nuts. O.o

[Demontestament]

Latest news from the LaRouche cult : we learn that Hillary Clinton must return a contribution (http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/breaking_news/2007/04/26/gt_auto.shtml) from a guy who is supposedly shareholder of Take 2. We also "learn" ( :p ) that Bill Gates invested a lot of money on video games (http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/breaking_news/2007/04/26/gates_videogames.shtml) and that he's related to the Washington Post via his wife.

I wonder how low they can sink... :rolleyes:

Hmmm well how about saying that Video Games are the reason why cancer exists. Or that recent studies show that 98% of all gamers are gay or robots who spread gay over the interwebz.

[Yukimura]

There is a new report for EIR today, I lost the link here at work but basicly he's trying to tie video games to devil worship, Dick cheney and the army.

IS it just me or is this got nuts?

[Soldat_Louis]

There is a new report for EIR today, I lost the link here at work but basicly he's trying to tie video games to devil worship, Dick cheney and the army.

IS it just me or is this got nuts?

Are you talking about this article (http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2007/3418microsoft_cheney.html) ?

Btw, to answer to your question, this has been getting nuts (and much more) for years. (http://www.publiceye.org/larouche/)

[V-22 Osprey]

Does anyone else think of Videodrome whenever they read the words New Violence? "Death to Sierra! Long live the New Violence! Long live the New Violence!"

[Grahamr]

Wow. You think this hate group would have been covered by dennis at some point.


Yet more proof that they simply don't matter.

[Soldat_Louis]

And now this : "promoting violent videogames is a crime against humanity" ! (http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/breaking_news/2007/05/02/lyn_videogames.shtml) :eek: :eek:

Edit : This is taken from a transcript of LaRouche's last webcast (http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/speeches_files/2007/0501_webcast.shtml). Here is the full portion (emphasis by myself) :

Freeman: ... Lyn, we have a number of questions that were submitted on the mass shooting at Blacksburg that took place a couple of weeks ago. This question is actually from the staff director of the Congressional Women's Caucus, but I'm taking some liberties with it, because we've gotten a number of questions on this. She says: "Mr. LaRouche, many people have responded to the tragedy at Blacksburg with calls for stronger gun laws. While I think we can all agree that individuals with a history of mental health problems should not have access to weapons, I have trouble seeing how strengthening such laws would have prevented the Blacksburg tragedy. I've seen members of your organization around town, sporting signs blaming Dick Cheney," she said, "which I don't quite understand. I also have looked at your remarks, although I admit that I have not looked at them in depth, regarding that tragedy, and video games. I noticed that you have now called to make those video games illegal."

She said, "I have some thoughts on that, and I'd like your view." She said, "Baby Boomers were the lab rats in a social experiment to examine the effects of hallucinogenic drugs when used on a broad scale. I personally believe that the entire nation is still suffering the damage of those experiments. I think that if you're actually serious about making these games illegal, you are probably in for the political fight of your life."

She says, "On the one hand, the sums of money involved are enormous. Second, if what you're saying is correct, there is also an explicit political agenda involved in the promotion of these games. And finally, many young people are, if not addicted to these games, passionately committed to their right to play them. It seems to me that the only way such a campaign could succeed, and the only way to wean our young people from these games is, if you reach out and convince young people that, in fact, they are—once again—being used as lab rats by people who they would otherwise perceive as their enemies. I'm not addressing this to you as a neat trick or spin, I happen to think that it is the actual character of this, but I was wondering if you would discuss the entire question a little bit more."

LaRouche: You have two issues here, which converge; two crucial issues of strategic policy. This is not a local social issue; this is a strategic issue. Going back into the 1970s, as a byproduct of the rush of euphoria around some of the Nixon Administration, you had the presentation as by Huntington, in a book called The Soldier and the State, of a policy which was not original to him, but which was something he made a book about, which was already in the works. The intention was at that point, a military policy which became associated with Cheney as of 1989, when Cheney was Secretary of Defense, of this reform in military affairs, which was actually the idea which has been in progress ever since, and Felix Rohatyn is one of the promoters of this, along with George Shultz, to give you some idea of who's behind it, and why some Democrats don't like to talk about it. Because they get money from George Shultz, or from Felix Rohatyn.

So, the policy was to eliminate the military of governments, and to take the logistical aspect of support of military affairs, and turn it over to private interests, such as Halliburton, as in Iraq. The greatest expense is not for the military as such; it's for Halliburton and similar companies, who get bonanzas, and high rates and so forth, for doing military jobs.

But the idea was to eliminate the military as a governmental function, a traditional form of military as a governmental function, and to replace it with something like the worst phase of the Roman legions. And the Roman legions, once the Roman Empire was established, were nothing but assassination squads, and extermination squads, like the Nazi SS, later. The SS-type troops.

Now, there was a scientific question that came in this, already in this period: How do you condition a human being to become a stone killer? Who can kill and kill and kill, and not see the face of the human being as human when they shoot, as this guy down there in Blacksburg. Well, they developed it, and the technique was originally developed for the U.S. military, for a special military training program, for special infantry, and then was spilled out for private entertainment by youth. It was also used to train police officers—

For example, you had a guy in the Bronx, came out of his house, a perfectly respectable citizen of African-American designation [Amadou Diallo]. He came out of his house, and was surrounded by cops, and they asked for some identification. He reached for his hip pocket to get his wallet, and they put 41 bullets into him. He had no weapon, and he was not guilty of anything. Now, this was the result of the kind of training given to police officers, of a special type, so that they shoot that way; they empty their gun. One of the key weapons for this, of course, is the Glock, which has a high magazine capacity. So, you come in, and it was used down here by this Cho [Seung Hui]. Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! And about a 50% kill ratio. Systematically, a brainwashed zombie.

Now, the technique that's used, was developed especially from 2000 on. In 2000, you had a crisis in the so-called tech industry, of Microsoft and so forth. They were in danger, because the flood of money, the wall of money which was being poured into the Y2K project stopped, and so all these computer companies were in trouble on their growth perspectives, because the flood of money that had gone in earlier to the Y2K project was stopped. Now, they suddenly discovered that these games, these killer games, were a good alternative source of profit. And the shape of the development of the computer industry technology since that time, has depended increasingly, on development of computer technologies for killer games. Killer games are one of the biggest sources of income of the computer industry, the growth income of the computer industry. Which is why a Democratic supporter and funder, like Microsoft, is one of the biggest backers of one of the most dangerous and deadly of these games. This is where the computer industry gets its money!

So now you have a combination of your trained masses of the population, as ready to go into the military to become a new kind of killer, as specified in The Soldier and the State by Huntington, from the 1970s, and you've got them on the street. You've got millions of young men who are trained killers, some of whom never touched a weapon. You have cases of—a boy in one case, for example, a young boy, not yet in his teens, who picked up a pistol for the first time, and shot with deadly precision, and killed. He had never pulled a trigger before, but he had pulled the trigger on a video game. And that's the way this thing works.

Yes, this guy Cho, he did some training on a target range, but his basic training and personality was destroyed, as it was, by a video game! And it was a Microsoft video game, chiefly.

So, therefore, the two things converge. On the one side you had the initial thrust which was simply The Soldier and the State, to eliminate the regular military of soldiers with a conscience, who are the instrument of society, to produce SS-type killers of soldiers without conscience, like the SS who killed the Jews and others in the concentration camps—same mentality. How do you mass produce this? It's not so easy; human beings do not like to kill human beings. Snipers do not like to be a sniper after the first time they do it. The revulsion, the reaction is strong. How do you brainwash them so they become a zombie who can kill and kill and kill and kill without feeling? A so-called Mafia killer. How do you produce a Mafia-killer type, who kills on order, and never has any compunction, and likes to add a fillip to it, as you do with these games. Like the cop-killing game—behead the cops after you kill them. You had a case like this just recently; three cops were killed as a result of a guy playing that game.

So, on the one hand, it's the idea of the reform of military affairs—eliminate the military, privatize the military—like the SS, the Nazi SS—and then recruit to this new kind of military, by reaching out in this police training, and into the civilian population generally, to get young people of military-recruitment age, and train them in the killer techniques, which mean that they can march from the game into the legions out there killing people in various parts of the world, without really shifting gears.

Now, do we think this is a crime? The promotion of this kind of operation with these intentions is itself a crime against humanity; it's a Nuremberg crime! And people should be given their Nuremberg indictment notices now, who participate in doing this.

(...)"

[KN]

This guy is more entertaining than Jack <3

[Yukimura]

This guy is more entertaining than Jack <3

Does it bother anyone else worry about this guy going Postal and blowing up a gamestop. We joked about jack doing that, but this guy is crazy enough, he might just do it.

[Soldat_Louis]

In fact, this guy is crazier than Jack, but he's also much, much richier. And here in France, where he's less known, I was appalled to see that some journalists in a hurry quoted his wife as a "serious" reference only because her speech was translated in French AND because the name of her party in Germany, which is the local branch of the LaRouche cult, means "Civil Rights Movement". And when you read that without any effort to verify what hides behind this seducing name, you soon hear : "Hey ! Martin Luther King condemns violent video games ! Violent video games are the equivalent to appartheid !".

[KN]

Does it bother anyone else worry about this guy going Postal and blowing up a gamestop. We joked about jack doing that, but this guy is crazy enough, he might just do it.

I don't see that happening.

I DO see him blowing himself up at Blizzard HQ happening. After all, these monsters are slowly killing 8 million people. And now they want to kill ALL of Korea (apparently there's talk about turning the Starcraft servers off when Starcraft 2 releases)

[Grahamr]

Why do these people waste long hours of their life to write up articles that mostly consist of "Haet haet haet haet haet haet haet haet haet!"?

[John]

I call bull**** on the entire thing. It seems to be nothing short of a Jack Thompson parody.

[Soldat_Louis]

Now that VT shooting's relation to video games faded away, they're looking for a new horse to ride... And here is the only thing they found (http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/breaking_news/2007/05/08/another_shooter.shtml) (and here's a so-called update (http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/breaking_news/2007/05/08/fresno_update.shtml) where there's nothing new).

[Soldat_Louis]

And another piece of LaRouche. (http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/breaking_news/2007/05/09/arnie_prez.shtml) It's not video game-related, but I couldn't help sharing it with you :

Washington Post Shows its Anti-American Roots: Promotes Fascist Import for President; Arnold Schwarzenegger

May 9 (LPAC)--Once again the Washington Post clearly demonstrates what it was designed to do, destroy the United States of America.

By aiming to promote the candidacy of California's fascist governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger, for President, the Washington Post has called for allowing "naturalized U.S. citizens" to become President of the United States. Naming Schwarzenegger, the Post pronounces that "the constitutional [sic] provision barring foreign-born citizens from the presidency is obsolete." Why? Because it was only "intended to prevent subversive foreign powers from forcing the fledgling the republic back under monarchical rule," and that danger no longer exists.

The Post is lying. First of all, the danger to the Constitution from "subversive foreign powers" is greater than ever: As Lyndon LaRouche has repeatedly written and said in his speeches, the Anglo-Dutch-led financier oligarchy wants nothing more than to destroy the American Republic and its Constitution because only such a Republic can threaten the international financiers' power grab.

Secondly, the Washington Post itself is tied, through its bankers Lazard Freres, to the Synarchist International, which has, since its collaboration with the Nazis in Europe in the World War II, continued to organize for a bankers and financiers' dictatorship to reign over governments.

And third, the "Governorship" of Schwarzenegger was organized by this Synarchist network--including George P. Shultz, the late Milton Friedman, mega-billionaire Warren Buffet, and British Lord Victor Rothschild.

If honest, the Post would have called its editorial, ``Time to Burn the U.S. Constitution.''

[Ace_ofspade]

This guy is just asking for it (http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/I/).

[Yukimura]

Man, guys like this and jack make me wish I could use the Rasengan and just blast the crap out of them.

For those of you not up with naruto, Heres the move in question.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=h6OMEA3dOpQ

[Soldat_Louis]

Man, guys like this and jack make me wish I could use the Rasengan and just blast the crap out of them.


Personally, I would use the Fuuton Rasenshuriken instead :D

[Soldat_Louis]

Ah, at last one concrete video game news : we learn that Swedish Army is "recruiting ‘killer video game’ addicts for war in Afghanistan". (http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/breaking_news/2007/05/10/swedish_army.shtml)

Pity they stopped "investigating" on Virginia Tech. It was so funny...

[Yukimura]

Personally, I would use the Fuuton Rasenshuriken instead :D

That is cool, admittedly, but I won't lie. I'm not a big fan of the new naruto. I liked the old one myself. Just who I am.

Still, Rasenshuriken kicks ass. But Rasengan just sounds cooler. Especially the way they did it in Ultimate ninja 3.

Anyway, back on topic. Larouche has a history of being paradoied as a fool and lunatic.

No one takes this nut back seriously.

[Grahamr]

This guy is just asking for it (http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/I/).

*Smirks*

Good Idea.

[Soldat_Louis]

Latest news : during V-Tech hearings 2 days ago, a Larouchite called Donald Phau supposedly called for "banning violent video games" (http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/breaking_news/2007/05/11/lpaccalls_ban.shtml)

Note that Don Phau is a guy who has been convicted and imprisoned for fraud with other larouchites in the early 90's. He also wrote this funny article about the "satanic" roots of Rock&Roll (http://www.konformist.com/rocknroll/satanrocks.htm)

Also note that when I looked for info about the V-Tech panel hearings in the mainstream media (which includes NBC (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18595530/), The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/10/AR2007051002225.html), The New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/12/opinion/12sat3.html?_r=1&oref=slogin) and VT News (http://www.vtnews.vt.edu/story.php?relyear=2007&itemno=285)), I found nothing about Don Phau's initiative...

[Demontestament]

But, during the session open to public comment in the afternoon, LPAC representative Don Phau, one of three speakers, began by reporting that the Washington Post removed its coverage of Cho's addiction to the point and shoot video game "Counterstrike". Phau explained the tremondous growth of video games led by Microsoft, the maker of Counterstrike, and said this was same game played by the killer of 16 people in Erfurt Germany in 2002 by a young student.

I thought CS was a Mod of Half Life, or am I mistaken?

[Hannah]

I thought CS was a Mod of Half Life, or am I mistaken?

That's how it originated. These days, it's developed by Valve and published by Vivendi/Microsoft, although Wikipedia claims that MS just publishes the Xbox version, and apparently Valve was started by a couple of MS guys. That seems like a rather tenuous link, but I'm not particularly familiar with the series, so I may be missing something.

[KN]

Most things Valve makes are distributed through Steam anyway, so Vivendi doesn't have that much to do. Let alone Microsoft.

Xbox version oh lol.

[Soldat_Louis]

Yes, but put yourself in their shoes : what is more gratifying for these people who believe in international financial conspiracy ? Blaming game developpers who are not known by non-gamers, or blaming the all-powerful and gigantic Microsoft ? They did the same with Nintendo a couple of years ago (I guess they replaced it by Microsoft in order not to be too ridiculous).

By the way, their propaganda continues and seems to have more success (http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/breaking_news/2007/05/14/video_exposes.shtml), but I don't know if they tell the truth or not (and with them, how to know ?). I wonder if we have to take their threat seriously :

May 14 (LPAC) - At the first meeting of the "Independent VA Tech Incident Review Panel" held on May 10, 2007 in Richmond, VA, there was not a single mention of killer's Seung Hui Cho's addiction to violent video games until it was brought up to the panel by LPAC representative Don Phau. In personal meetings with each of the eight panel members, Phau was told that they had not been informed of Cho's playing of video games and were very appreciative to learn about it. Lead panel member, former homeland security chief and Pennsylvania governor Tom Ridge, was amazed that he hadn't been told of Cho's playing of Counterstrike, the point and shoot video game, which allows the player to chose a high bullet capacity Glock, the same weapon that Cho used for the killings. He said he would get to the bottom of Cho's involvement. Each panel member was personally handed a packet of material which included Lyndon LaRouche's statement that promoters of violent video games are Nuremberg criminals committing "crimes against humanity" (http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/breaking_news/2007/05/02/lyn_videogames.shtml) and Helga LaRouche's call for the banning of violent video games. (http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/breaking_news/2007/04/18/hzl.shtml)

There are two more panel meetings scheduled. One at VA Tech in Blacksburg, VA and the other in Northern Virginia.

[Yukimura]

Yes, but put yourself in their shoes : what is more gratifying for these people who believe in international financial conspiracy ? Blaming game developpers who are not known by non-gamers, or blaming the all-powerful and gigantic Microsoft ? They did the same with Nintendo a couple of years ago (I guess they replaced it by Microsoft in order not to be too ridiculous).

By the way, their propaganda continues and seems to have more success (http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/breaking_news/2007/05/14/video_exposes.shtml), but I don't know if they tell the truth or not (and with them, how to know ?). I wonder if we have to take their threat seriously :

This is what I meant when I said Doug Lowenstein was a coward. Who is going out and putting retards like this in there place? No one.

Send this to Hal Harpin of the ECA and see if he can get something done about this BS.

[Grahamr]

Let's tell Halpin about these guys...Hopefully, he should know what to do.


If it had to come to US using activism, what tools would we have??? Yeahhhh...This forum isn't really suited for activism war. We're kinda like switzerland.

[Demontestament]

Let's tell Halpin about these guys...Hopefully, he should know what to do.


If it had to come to US using activism, what tools would we have??? Yeahhhh...This forum isn't really suited for activism war. We're kinda like switzerland.

So we have ample amounts of Chocolate? Why hasn't anyone told me this!? You ****ers have been holding out on me? :(

[Soldat_Louis]

Now, they say that their anti-game propaganda can be seen on C-Span TV : (http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/breaking_news/2007/05/17/cspan.shtml)


LaRouche Representative's Exposure of VA Tech Killer's Video Game Addiction is Being Regularly Re-played on C-Span TV Nationally

May 17 (LPAC)--C-Span is re-playing a recording of the testimonies given May 10 before the VA Tech Review panel investigating the shooting of 32 students at Virginia Tech University. This includes the full testimony of LaRouchePAC representative Don Phau, exposing that Seung Hui Cho had practiced for his mass killing on the Microsoft video game "Counterstrike," the same video game that was played by school shooter Robert Steinheiser, who shot dead 16 people in Erfurt, Germany in 2000. (See http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/breaking_news/2007/05/11/lpaccalls_ban.shtml)

None of the panel members had previously heard of Cho's addiction to video games. The next panel meeting will be in Blacksburg, VA on May 21. For more information and interviews with Phau, contact: Donphau@Larouchepub.com.


Well, all I could find on C-Span was two links (http://12.170.145.161/Search/advanced.asp?AdvancedQueryText=virginia+tech&StartDateMonth=5&StartDateYear=2007&EndDateMonth=5&EndDateYear=2007&Series=&ProgramIssue=&QueryType=&QueryTextOptions=&ResultCount=50&SortBy=bestmatch), but I couldn't watch them under my Linux workstation.

Oh, and they also accuse Halo 3 of glorifying Dick Cheney (http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/breaking_news/2007/05/16/halo3.shtml) :rolleyes:

[KN]

Now, they say that their anti-game propaganda can be seen on C-Span TV : (http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/breaking_news/2007/05/17/cspan.shtml)



Well, all I could find on C-Span was two links (http://12.170.145.161/Search/advanced.asp?AdvancedQueryText=virginia+tech&StartDateMonth=5&StartDateYear=2007&EndDateMonth=5&EndDateYear=2007&Series=&ProgramIssue=&QueryType=&QueryTextOptions=&ResultCount=50&SortBy=bestmatch), but I couldn't watch them under my Linux workstation.

Oh, and they also accuse Halo 3 of glorifying Dick Cheney (http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/breaking_news/2007/05/16/halo3.shtml) :rolleyes:

People WATCH C-Span?

[Soldat_Louis]

People WATCH C-Span?

What is it exactly ? (audience, reputation, etc...)

[KN]

What is it exactly ? (audience, reputation, etc...)

It airs sessions of congress if I recall, much like one of our public channels does. Except it would appear Dutch congress is infinitely more entertaining.

So I'm guessing it's kind of a channel for the really politically engaged.

[Grahamr]

Scarily enough, Lyndon is mentioned late in this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmtAxBBZllY&mode=related&search=

Small world, isn't it?

[ZeRu]

I'm surprised these lunatics even have a website (I'm not going there btw) - shouldn't they think that the Internet is Satan's invention too?
Since their 15th century-like views extend to more than just video games, I think they should be dismissed and ignored...unless you plan to either mock them or sue them.
But Beckstein and Stoiber from Bavarian CSU party...that's some people with similarly horrifying views about video games who actually have political power!

[Soldat_Louis]

I'm surprised these lunatics even have a website (I'm not going there btw) - shouldn't they think that the Internet is Satan's invention too?
Since their 15th century-like views extend to more than just video games, I think they should be dismissed and ignored...unless you plan to either mock them or sue them.
But Beckstein and Stoiber from Bavarian CSU party...that's some people with similarly horrifying views about video games who actually have political power!

It's true that the LaRouchites don't have political power... but they could have the ear of those who have political power. And I don't like what happened recently with the V-Tech Review Panel (if it really happened).

Anyway, here's the last news : they had their word (http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/breaking_news/2007/05/18/esa.shtml) about Gallagher's nomination as ESA's head. And, much more important, today's LaRouche Show (http://www.larouchepub.com/radio/index.html) is dedicated to... guess what ? "Stop the Killers Behind the Killer Video-Game Culture."

You can either watch the video (ftp://ftp.ljcentral.net/wms/eir/tls/2007/tls070519_en_hi.wma) or listen to the mp3 (http://asx.ljcentral.net/mp3/eir/tls/2007/tls070519_en_hi.mp3)

[Yukimura]

It's true that the LaRouchites don't have political power... but they could have the ear of those who have political power. And I don't like what happened recently with the V-Tech Review Panel (if it really happened).

Anyway, here's the last news : they had their word (http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/breaking_news/2007/05/18/esa.shtml) about Gallagher's nomination as ESA's head. And, much more important, today's LaRouche Show (http://www.larouchepub.com/radio/index.html) is dedicated to... guess what ? "Stop the Killers Behind the Killer Video-Game Culture."

You can either watch the video (ftp://ftp.ljcentral.net/wms/eir/tls/2007/tls070519_en_hi.wma) or listen to the mp3 (http://asx.ljcentral.net/mp3/eir/tls/2007/tls070519_en_hi.mp3)

Anybody got a transcipt of this show? Im at work and can't listen to the show at all. If anyone could get it for me that would be good. Though I would feel bad about subjecting anyone to this level of lunacy. :(

[KN]

Oh god, send these people something about Starcraft and South Korea.

[Soldat_Louis]

Anybody got a transcipt of this show? Im at work and can't listen to the show at all. If anyone could get it for me that would be good. Though I would feel bad about subjecting anyone to this level of lunacy. :(


Transcript... hey, this is the very first word I thought about ! The Larouchites provide a transcript for some of their shows, but unfortunately, not this one.

[Soldat_Louis]

Uh oh, now, the LaRouche cult tries to recruit Craig Anderson. (http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/breaking_news/2007/05/19/video_games.shtml)

Edit : Glad that GP made a coverage (http://gamepolitics.com/2007/05/20/larouche-staffer-likens-violent-games-to-heroin-in-va-tech-testimony/#comments) of the Larouchites' lunacies... In fact, I wish GP didn't have to, and I wish I didn't have to either.

Edit 2 : For those who come here to learn about the Larouche cult's involvement on V-Tech shootings, you'll find most of their articles in this page. (http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/developing_stories/new_violence.shtml)

[laroucheyouth]

LaRouche: "We need real Marines, not men and women turned into zombies by computerized killer games."

May 12 (LPAC)--The following is a response by Lyndon LaRouche to an e-mail to LPAC from a retired U.S. military officer who complains about LPAC's warnings about video games, and also about attorney Jack Thompson's attempts to stop the violent killer-training "games." The writer expresses concern that curtailment of video games will be used to attack civil liberties. LaRouche wrote:

Recheck your facts. The popular introduction of the new program in military affairs for which killer video games were later developed to serve, dates from Samuel P. Huntington's 1970s book The Soldier & The State. Today's form of implementation of new model in military affairs of Huntington et al., has been the starting-point for the policy under which the spill-over of "killer games" into such producers for the civilian sector as Microsoft emerged. There is a film, produced by Microsoft, featuring its chief executive in an active role in demonstrating the games. You have been given misleading information on that account.

The facts, as presented by my representative, to which you raised objection, are true. Your denial of Microsoft head's involvement in the relevant computer killer games, evades the essential facts, which were correctly stated by us. Otherwise, your problem in this matter is, that you clearly do not know any of the crucially important whys and wherefores of the military policy behind the promotion of killer games of that type.

If you wish to take matters of military and related strategy, you must do a lot more homework than you appear to have taken into account thus far. In fairness to you, I explain the most essential of the historical facts behind the motives for promotion of killer games, as, for example, among students at universities such as your own.

The Grand Strategy Behind Those Games

The actual genesis of modern programs of this type came to the surface in Russia, in 1905-1907, when the controller of a social- democratic revolutionary, Leon Trotsky, was deployed into St. Petersburg by his controller of that time, a British agent, the notorious Alexander Helphand ("Parvus"). Obviously, at that time, electronic data-processing was not yet part of the program. The policy introduced by Helphand was titled "Permanent War, Permanent Revolution." Trotsky pushed Helphand's program, adopting it as his own, to the effect that Helphand scampered to safety while Trotsky was condemned to Siberia. Parvus later turned up in various matters of interest, such as a weapons-trafficker for British munitions firms, as the fellow who duped the World War II Germany intelligence services into what is known as "The Parvus Plan," and who died in Germany, while associated with the relevant fascist organization of that time, Coudenhove-Kalergi's network.

GEOPOLITICS: The intention behind these and related schemes was Geopolitics. What became known as Geopolitics was developed in London under the Prince of Wales, Edward Albert, in reaction to that spread of the model of the American System of political-economy whose influence spread like wildfire throughout continental Eurasia, in the aftermath of the U.S. victory over the British puppet known as The Confederacy. London sensed the adoption of the American System model by Germany's Bismarck, by Alexander III of Russia, by Japan, and elsewhere, would mean that continental Eurasia would break out of control by the international, Anglo-Dutch Liberal system of the British gold standard.

For that purpose, the British monarchy itself played a key role in seducing the Emperor of Japan into an alliance of royalty against Britain's rivals. The beginning of what became World Wars I and II occurred in 1894-95 against China, Korea, and Russia, in succession, as Japan imperial war-policy against China and Russia, and also the U.S.A., of the entire 1894-1945 interval. In between 1917 and 1925, Japan was allied with London for an attack on the U.S. naval forces, with Japan assigned, already in the early 1920s, to take out the U.S. Pearl Harbor naval base. (U.S.A. Policy, from the end of our Civil War through 1945, had been stable peace and economic cooperation throughout the Pacific region, in opposition to, especially, British imperialism. The role which British geopolitical doctrine assigned to Japan, throughout the 1894-1940 interval, was to get the U.S. influence out of the Pacific generally, and out of China most emphatically.)

With the death of President Franklin Roosevelt, the Truman Administration was taken over immediately by British policy. Truman's quarrel with General Douglas MacArthur, who had won a Pacific war, over the greatest area, with the greatest economy of expenditure of forces, in the shortest time, of any major war in history (the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, on Truman's orders, had nothing to do with that victory).

GLOBALIZATION: The long-range intention of a network of interests since 1945, including certain U.S. financier interests, has been the absorption of the U.S.A, into a form of "globalization" under the flag of an "English-speaking union." On the U.S. side, the leading sponsors of such a perspective had been the same Wall Street and related financier interests which had initially backed, and funded, Adolf Hitler's securing his dictatorship, such as Averell Harriman and the grandfather of George W. Bush, Jr., the Prescott Bush who signed the order, on behalf of the Harriman firm, which bailed out Hitler's virtually bankrupt Nazi Party in time to save Hitler's opportunity to be put into power.

With the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, and the ensuing launching of full-scale U.S. war in Indo-China, the last effective resistance to the post-FDR opposition to the goal of an English-speaking union for elimination of all sovereign nation- states, by "globalization," was on the platter. During the span 1969-2007, George Shultz, the man who, together with his agent, Dick Cheney, crafted the present George W. Bush, Jr. Administration, has been an emblematic figure for the policies of liquidation of the U.S. Republic through globalization.

THE MILITARY-INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX: I have had my personal reservations about President Dwight Eisenhower's use of the expression "military-industrial complex" for his final address as President, although I agree fully with his intention on that occasion. The role of Vice-President Dick Cheney's connection to Halliburton, is the appropriate typical example of that against which Eisenhower had warned. The entire history of the 1961-2007 period, from "the Bay of Pigs" to the presently endless war in Iraq and threatened war in Iran, will not be the end of it, unless we shut down what Eisenhower termed the "military-industrial complex."

There was never anything patriotic about the so-called "military- industrial complex;" it has been closer to treason, in fact. By now, even the most stubborn among honest soldiers should nod sadly, saying that I am right on this point.

Imagine a world in which globalization reigns like an empire over the planet as a whole. Call this "globalization." Have the power over that empire in the hands of a supranational gang of wild-eyed financial speculators, such as "hedge funds." How you manage military affairs when the power over military means is not longer under the full control of truly sovereign governments? There, in that question, you must read the meaning behind the phrase,"A Revolution in Military Affairs." Under that heading, properly understood, you will find the military policy which expresses the political intention behind the combined military, police, and private training in computer-modelled "killer games."

If you had my experience, after returning to the U.S. from Asia in Spring 1946, with my studies of the work of such as Professor Norbert Weiner, John von Neumann, and related programs of the late 1940s and 1950s at MIT's RLE, including my own specifications for my impromptu 1959 specifications for computer design of television presentations, you would better understand how programs such as computer war-games work on the mind of the person who plays them too often. Then you would understand how an event with certainty of the uncontested specifics of the Blacksburg event were induced in the perpetrator. You would also understand why this proliferation of such killer games was taken from its original base in military training for special operations, and used not only for brainwashing of police-force members, but also children.

The proliferation of such games is already a crime against humanity as much as the distribution of heroin, cocaine, and LSD.

The only purpose of killer games, apart from making purveyors of such games rich, is to turn people into zombie killers, who kill like automatons, as no person with a healthy mind could do. IF you would not put a drunk behind the wheel of an automobile, you would not put a human mind under the control of a computer killer- game: unless you were doing that for the kind of purposes behind the policies of wretches such as Vice-President Dick Cheney: "permanent warfare and permanent regime-change," all done in the service of a form of world-empire intended to be a Tower of Babel, an empire conducted as such under the deceptive title of "globalization."

The candidate-zombies hovering over their killer computer-games are zombies in the making, ready to march into the recruiting offices as ready-made zombie-killers in the likeness of "Terminator 2" to kill and be killed in the permanent wars of a new world empire of the kind which might have been designed by H.G. Wells.

We need real Marines, not men and women turned into zombies by computerized killer games.

[laroucheyouth]

LPAC calls on VA Tech. Review Panel to Conduct Thorough Assessment on the Role of Violent Video Games in the Virginia Tech Tragedy

May 22 (LPAC)—On Monday, May 21, 2007, members of the LaRouche Youth Movement, representing the LaRouche Political Action Committee (LPAC) attended the second official hearing of Virginia Governor Tim Kaine's Review Panel, which was set up to investigate the shootings at Virginia Tech University, where 33 students were killed in the most fatal attack of school violence in history. The hearing took place in Blacksburg, Va., where Virginia Tech is located. LYM member Paul Mourino submitted written testimony, and added further remarks. Both sections of Mourino's testimony appear below.

Written Testimony

In the aftermath of the Columbine High School massacres several years ago, Lyndon LaRouche joined such law enforcement experts as Col. David Grossman in demanding action against the manufacturers and distributors of violent point-and-shoot video games that, in Col. Grossman's words, "give kids the will and the skill to kill." Studies by law enforcement agencies, including the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the U.S. Secret Service, have found a very high correlation between the 20 major school shooters of the past decade, and addiction to violent point-and-shoot video games.

Cho, the Virginia Tech shooter, is no exception, despite the near total media blackout of his involvement with violent video games, including Counterstrike. News organizations like the Washington Post interviewed friends of Cho from high school and college, and confirmed his strong attraction to these games. Yet that story never appeared in print, and only accidentally showed up on a blog site associated with the newspaper.

There is good reason to believe that the video game industry, which was rocked by the Columbine revelations that school killers Harris and Klebold were addicted to violent video games, and honed their shooting skills through these computerized killing simulators, have poured millions of dollars into a public relations and damage control campaign, aimed at preventing a repeat of that bad media coverage. The video game industry is now a $20 billion a year industry, surpassing the motion picture industry in revenue.

We of the LaRouche Youth Movement call on this Commission to include in its deliberations and investigations a thorough look at the role that violent video games may have played in the Virginia Tech tragedy. Such a serious probe by such a prestigious body can do much to assure that the root causes of the recent tragic killings here are understood and addressed. The nation faces a potential epidemic eruption of a "new violence," driven, in part, by the mass distribution of killing simulators to youth.

These point-and-shoot video games were originally developed by the U.S. military for the U.S. military and law enforcement professionals. When the same technologies that were developed specifically to break down human beings' resistance to killing are packaged as video games, and are targeted at an audience of children in their teens and younger, there is something profoundly wrong.

There are clearly a number of pressing issues that this Commission will be taking up. It is essential that one of these issues is the role of the violent video games in the horrible events that have recently taken place here in Blacksburg. We look forward to working with the Commission in any way we can, to provide you with the material that we have gathered on the "new violence" and on the nature of the video game industry.

Further remarks to the Panel

On concluding the written testimony which he read, Paul Mourino added the following remarks:

There is a fight waging in the current U.S. Congress, between the legacy of F.D.R.'s tradition, whose promise is being shown in the potential to construct great projects -- for example the Russian offer to construct the Bering Strait tunnel project. On the other hand we have the current administrations policy of fighting the war on terrorism. Currently, the administrations war policy is changing the character and philosophy of our military's orientation. In February of this year, as I participated in this debate, working to revive F.D.R.'s policies, I stumbled upon a pedagogical display, in the Rayburn Congressional Office Building, which was set up by the U.S. military and/or private contractors who work for the government. Their work reveals the future for the American military, and the next war. There were various types of video game displays, which all show how the military is training its soldiers. Some featured the first person combat scenarios, others enabled people to simulate driving tanks or other types of combat vehicle, and others still were virtual interrogation sessions. The guns used to operate these simulators were weighed to give a sense of the real thing, and all of them had features, which simulated the kick back one receives when discharging a real weapon. Of course, soda and pizza was available to all the young Congressional staffers who participated, and remember most of the work done in Congress, is done by college-age staff.

To the average person, who has not seen this before, this might appear novel, but most young people, including myself, know this phenomena and have had this experience before.

To make sense of this thing, I would like to reference the work of Col. David Grossman. A shift occurred in the U.S. Military after World War II. With the death of F.D.R. some of the military leaders in combination with some from the private sector discovered that only 15% of America's riflemen could shoot to kill at the moment of truth, on the combat field. For whatever reason, a decision was made to correct this problem and enhance the numbers to increase the ability of the riflemen enabling them to shoot to kill, without thinking.

Col. Grossman, now a retired Army ranger, used these technologies during the Vietnam War and afterwards trained American riflemen. Later he noticed that the same techniques and technologies he used on the proving ground were embedded in his kids' video games. He raised the alarm, and has written various books, and tried his best to bring this horror to the public's attention. His book On Killing, is now required reading at many U.S. Military training institutions, including West Point.

I ran into this phenomenon when I was in middle school. The game "Wolfenstein 3D" was free and was the first killing simulation game on the market. The next versions were "Doom," "Doom II," and "Golden Eye." Incidentally, Bill Gates of Microsoft used "Doom" as a clever business-marketing scheme to introduce his, then, new product Windows 95. The technology of this operating system enabled much better game play and graphics. A clever business strategy to sell and market a new product to young people has a much different meaning when we see the effects that these technologies have had over a longer period of time. These video games are creating menticide among the young generation. LaRouche PAC recommends that this panel create the legislation, which will orient our military's policy away from the current model and return to the idea of the citizen solider, which was the model back during the days of F.D.R. We also recommend that you shame, fine, or regulate all those private corporations who have participated in these projects. Proper legislation, designed to protect my generation from these games, is needed. Time -- the younger generation need time to think about what kind of future we want for our Republic, and further if we decide to go with great projects we need to develop the capacity to take leadership in the future.

[laroucheyouth]

Oh, and if you guys want the transcript of last Saturday's LaRouche Show, I can provide that too.

I hope at least one of you have had the chance to read, "The Soldier and the State" by Samuel Huntington.

Keep an eye on our website. The Best is yet to come!!! :)

[Yukimura]

How'd a Member of the loony bridage get loose in here. Mods, need to get your act together. Can't have this kinda lying riff raff running loose around here.

[GamePolitics]

Why can't he say what he wants?

As long as he's not spamming or violating forum rules...

[Yukimura]

Why can't he say what he wants?

As long as he's not spamming or violating forum rules...

I was being sarcastic, sorry.

Personally his arguments are as much flawed as Jack Thompson. I should know, seeing as how my father is a 20 year veteran. But the Larouche group is a cult of lunatics and extremists and the fact that the industry doesn't take them to task bothers me. It's just as bad if not worse then when they kept ignoring thompson all those years. Now a man whose facing multiple bar ethics violations is held up as an "expert by the media" cause the industry refused to counter him directly.

The same will happen with larouche if we aren't careful. Seriously dennis, wheres the ECA. I haven't heard anything about them in months.

[Picho]

There are fatal flaws in all of the anti-gamer's arguments.

This flaw is that they are alive...

Think about it, whenever there was someone who spoke out alot in the past, esspecially people who spoke out against killer type people, the speaker usually is assassinated.

If video games are so zombific and mind controlling, would not the video game companies use thier control to trigger people to assassinate the speakers.

There is also the flaw that FPS cause a person who never has used a gun before become able to shoot one. Its the same waaaay back in the medival ages with the Arbalest.

Arbalests were sometimes considered inhumane or unfair weapons, since an inexperienced crossbowman could use one to kill a knight who had a lifetime of training.

This led to their ban by Pope Innocent II, in whose name Canon 29 of the Second Lateran Council (1139, as translated in Decrees of the Ecumenical Councils, ed. Norman P. Tanner) states "We prohibit under anathema that murderous art of crossbowmen and archers, which is hateful to God, to be employed against Christians and Catholics from now on."


Point an click... its even easier to kill someone with a gun, then lets say... your bare hands. You need to train harder to kill some with your bare hands (not just strangle..) then to use a death machine with a button.

just about any one can push a button.

[Grahamr]

Why can't he say what he wants?

As long as he's not spamming or violating forum rules...

Sorry Dennis.

That was Hypocritical of me.

[kurisu7885]

@laroucheyouth

the V tech shooting had nothing to do with video games as Cho hadn't touched them since High school. nice try.

Unless the police find a link, I don't buy it. and I mean an official report, not an opinion or someone else's word.

[Soldat_Louis]

Why can't he say what he wants?

As long as he's not spamming or violating forum rules...

In fact, having a Larouchite here may be interesting... I would no longer have to update this thread constantly (I don't always have time enough), as he/she could do this job for me, and for free.

And yes, I'd like a transcript of the LaRouche show I mentioned.

[KN]

Why can't he say what he wants?

As long as he's not spamming or violating forum rules...

Can we hug him though? :3

[Tollwutig]

I was being sarcastic, sorry.

Personally his arguments are as much flawed as Jack Thompson. I should know, seeing as how my father is a 20 year veteran. But the Larouche group is a cult of lunatics and extremists and the fact that the industry doesn't take them to task bothers me. It's just as bad if not worse then when they kept ignoring thompson all those years. Now a man whose facing multiple bar ethics violations is held up as an "expert by the media" cause the industry refused to counter him directly.

The same will happen with larouche if we aren't careful. Seriously dennis, wheres the ECA. I haven't heard anything about them in months.


You're seriously out of it as to what an industry can and can not do legally Yuki. For one the Industry can not take someone to task for having conspiracy theories. These ideas are just that, conspiracy theories, even the ECA is not going to be able to do anything to stop them.
You know the first amendment which has protected video game content multiple times already? It protects the conspiracy theorists as well. It's nice that way, and you're calling on the ECA or the Video Game Industry to take people to task is really no better than Thompson in all of his glory.

Also as I have stated time and again, sarcasm does not work well on Internet forums.

Can we hug him though? :3
Hug away KN.

[Thefremen]

I just realized "laroucheyouth" is a fairly disturbing name. Is La Rouche training an army of like-minded young people, training them to do his will while indoctrinating them with his conspiracy theories? If that's the case shouldn't we, as patriotic citizens, alert the gov't about a new terrorist cell forming?

Or have I just been mind-****ed by watching 24?

[kurisu7885]

Toll's right. You can't be sued to talking out of your ass. If that was possible half of america would be in jail.

[Sidewinder]

"He has said that MI6 or senior advisers to the Queen of England have threatened to assassinate him, and that the Queen is the "head of a gang that is pushing drugs" around the world."
- From the Wikipedia article.

If you clamied that James Bond is going to kill you, you should talk to a shrink. But, as we all know, shrinks are all controlled by the central shrink comitte in London. (Don't you agree that this would be a likely response from LaRouche if you told him to get one?)

[nightwng2000]

Play time:

When was the first "live action" military training war games performed? In other words, when did the military start running live drills to train their soldiers, as opposed to merely testing an individual's ability with a particular weapon.

When was the first military computer war/training simulator (by genre (ie RTS, international strategy, first person shooter, squad based war game, etc))?

One of the claims is that the military used computer war games to affect the soldiers decades before private citizens were even playing pong. But what KIND of war games were they? Were they of the type played in the movie "War Games"? Or were they FPS as these folks are implying?

It would be interesting to know whether the military have always used war game scenarios to train their troops long before the computer age.

[Yukimura]

You're seriously out of it as to what an industry can and can not do legally Yuki. For one the Industry can not take someone to task for having conspiracy theories. These ideas are just that, conspiracy theories, even the ECA is not going to be able to do anything to stop them.
You know the first amendment which has protected video game content multiple times already? It protects the conspiracy theorists as well. It's nice that way, and you're calling on the ECA or the Video Game Industry to take people to task is really no better than Thompson in all of his glory.

Also as I have stated time and again, sarcasm does not work well on Internet forums.


Hug away KN.

True enough that suing them is not gonna help, but my point is that the ECA and other industry groups were not PResent at the VT tech panel thing where the group spouted this garbage.

THey should have been there to counter it.

Thats what I'm saying, we need to have the ECA and other industry groups take a more active role in coutering this, up to and including slander suits when someone outright lies against the industry. SUre conspiracy theroies are bogus, but lets face it, thompson has beeen proven in the past to be an out and out Liar more then once!

So lets not let what happened with him happen again, lets have the ECA take an active, straight forward role in this and have them start speaking out against this kinda crap.

[Thefremen]

Play time:

When was the first "live action" military training war games performed? In other words, when did the military start running live drills to train their soldiers, as opposed to merely testing an individual's ability with a particular weapon.

When was the first military computer war/training simulator (by genre (ie RTS, international strategy, first person shooter, squad based war game, etc))?

One of the claims is that the military used computer war games to affect the soldiers decades before private citizens were even playing pong. But what KIND of war games were they? Were they of the type played in the movie "War Games"? Or were they FPS as these folks are implying?

It would be interesting to know whether the military have always used war game scenarios to train their troops long before the computer age.

Do you count tabletop games? If that's the case then some time a little bit after Homo Erectus started walking upright.

[Sprngpilot]

It would be interesting to know whether the military have always used war game scenarios to train their troops long before the computer age.

Ever play chess?

[Soldat_Louis]

I think that Kriegspiel board games were used by European armies...

Well, the best we can do is to read From Sun Tzu to Xbox (http://www.fromsuntzutoxbox.com/)

Edit : Hey, I thought that having a Larouchite member would help me update this thread, but no, I guess I still have to do it myself.

First, they call Pope Benedict XVI for help. (http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/breaking_news/2007/05/23/pope_denounces_games.shtml) Problem : this is old news, as everyone had heard about it months ago, and his so-called "condemnation of violent video games" is in fact a condemnation of media of any form - including video games - that "exalt violence and portray anti-social behavior or the trivialization of human sexuality". Which is very different.

Second, they recycle their own old news. (http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/breaking_news/2007/05/23/VT_panel.shtml) But they manage to be funnier than ever :

"LaRouche has called the promotion of video games 'a crime against humanity.' It is not a social problem, 'it's a Nuremberg crime!'" :eek: :eek:

Edit 2 : Oh, and about what Yuki and Toll said : yes, these are conspiracy theories, and no, we normally shouldn't care about them. But now that they went mainstream and could be heard in V-Tech review panel, we cannot afford to ignore them any longer. So at least, we could oppose them by telling publicly our truth (by "we", I mean any representative of the game industry or the game community). I don't care being called a "criminal against humanity" by a cult freak I never took seriously, but I start to care when I realize people listen to him and there's no one to oppose him.

Remember when Jack Thompson compare Doug Lowenstein to Hitler, Goebbels and Saddam Hussein, and Lowenstein never said anything. Maybe he thought that Thompson didn't exist and no one would listen to him, so he didn't have to care, but in the long term this was a mistake.

[kurisu7885]

Next they'll call for us to nuke Japan to "finish the job."

[Demontestament]

Oh, and if you guys want the transcript of last Saturday's LaRouche Show, I can provide that too.

I hope at least one of you have had the chance to read, "The Soldier and the State" by Samuel Huntington.

Keep an eye on our website. The Best is yet to come!!! :)

Honestly I think we could do without the copypasta thank you. What was said in your posts seemed like nothing but rambling, though alot of what Mr. LaRouche says is nothing but hate filled rambling anyway. Just a hint though, next time you do post something please check the facts, your facts about microsoft are completely false and full of error and dare i say fail. Making Microsoft and Bill Gates look responsible for VTech or any other horrid action is stupid, LaRouche only targets Microsoft and Gates because they are well known names with Deep pockets, so it is easy for him to spin the blame onto them.

This is nothing more than someone trying to spin the blame on something that had nothing to do with anything because it is popular with kids this day in age. The same spin was put on rock music, Dungeons and Dragons, and Comic Books each one was claimed to corrupt children and lead them down the path of evil and dispair. But guess what, all of those claims turned out to be false and made by sensationalist loud mouths that just wanted to censor something they did not like. I would like to see you or Mr. LaRouche himself tell a Marine to their face they are not a real man, guarenteed they will laugh at you. I would honestly like to know how a man who spreads nothing but hate and intollerence could even know what a man looks like.

[KN]

We're still waiting for that transcript :3

[Demontestament]

We're still waiting for that transcript :3

Do we really want more copypasta on the forums KN?

[nightwng2000]

Do we really want more copypasta on the forums KN?

Well, doing more than spamming would make life more interesting.

Lef's face it, as long as he doesn't break the rules, it could be fun.

[Grahamr]

You have been given misleading information on that account.

The facts, as presented by my representative, to which you raised objection, are true. Your denial of Microsoft head's involvement in the relevant computer killer games, evades the essential facts, which were correctly stated by us. Otherwise, your problem in this matter is, that you clearly do not know any of the crucially important whys and wherefores of the military policy behind the promotion of killer games of that type.

If you wish to take matters of military and related strategy, you must do a lot more homework than you appear to have taken into account thus far. In fairness to you, I explain the most essential of the historical facts behind the motives for promotion of killer games, as, for example, among students at universities such as your own.

The Grand Strategy Behind Those Games

The actual genesis of modern programs of this type came to the surface in Russia, in 1905-1907, when the controller of a social- democratic revolutionary, Leon Trotsky, was deployed into St. Petersburg by his controller of that time, a British agent, the notorious Alexander Helphand ("Parvus"). Obviously, at that time, electronic data-processing was not yet part of the program. The policy introduced by Helphand was titled "Permanent War, Permanent Revolution." Trotsky pushed Helphand's program, adopting it as his own, to the effect that Helphand scampered to safety while Trotsky was condemned to Siberia. Parvus later turned up in various matters of interest, such as a weapons-trafficker for British munitions firms, as the fellow who duped the World War II Germany intelligence services into what is known as "The Parvus Plan," and who died in Germany, while associated with the relevant fascist organization of that time, Coudenhove-Kalergi's network.

GEOPOLITICS: The intention behind these and related schemes was Geopolitics. What became known as Geopolitics was developed in London under the Prince of Wales, Edward Albert, in reaction to that spread of the model of the American System of political-economy whose influence spread like wildfire throughout continental Eurasia, in the aftermath of the U.S. victory over the British puppet known as The Confederacy. London sensed the adoption of the American System model by Germany's Bismarck, by Alexander III of Russia, by Japan, and elsewhere, would mean that continental Eurasia would break out of control by the international, Anglo-Dutch Liberal system of the British gold standard.

For that purpose, the British monarchy itself played a key role in seducing the Emperor of Japan into an alliance of royalty against Britain's rivals. The beginning of what became World Wars I and II occurred in 1894-95 against China, Korea, and Russia, in succession, as Japan imperial war-policy against China and Russia, and also the U.S.A., of the entire 1894-1945 interval. In between 1917 and 1925, Japan was allied with London for an attack on the U.S. naval forces, with Japan assigned, already in the early 1920s, to take out the U.S. Pearl Harbor naval base. (U.S.A. Policy, from the end of our Civil War through 1945, had been stable peace and economic cooperation throughout the Pacific region, in opposition to, especially, British imperialism. The role which British geopolitical doctrine assigned to Japan, throughout the 1894-1940 interval, was to get the U.S. influence out of the Pacific generally, and out of China most emphatically.)

With the death of President Franklin Roosevelt, the Truman Administration was taken over immediately by British policy. Truman's quarrel with General Douglas MacArthur, who had won a Pacific war, over the greatest area, with the greatest economy of expenditure of forces, in the shortest time, of any major war in history (the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, on Truman's orders, had nothing to do with that victory).

GLOBALIZATION: The long-range intention of a network of interests since 1945, including certain U.S. financier interests, has been the absorption of the U.S.A, into a form of "globalization" under the flag of an "English-speaking union." On the U.S. side, the leading sponsors of such a perspective had been the same Wall Street and related financier interests which had initially backed, and funded, Adolf Hitler's securing his dictatorship, such as Averell Harriman and the grandfather of George W. Bush, Jr., the Prescott Bush who signed the order, on behalf of the Harriman firm, which bailed out Hitler's virtually bankrupt Nazi Party in time to save Hitler's opportunity to be put into power.

With the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, and the ensuing launching of full-scale U.S. war in Indo-China, the last effective resistance to the post-FDR opposition to the goal of an English-speaking union for elimination of all sovereign nation- states, by "globalization," was on the platter. During the span 1969-2007, George Shultz, the man who, together with his agent, Dick Cheney, crafted the present George W. Bush, Jr. Administration, has been an emblematic figure for the policies of liquidation of the U.S. Republic through globalization.

THE MILITARY-INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX: I have had my personal reservations about President Dwight Eisenhower's use of the expression "military-industrial complex" for his final address as President, although I agree fully with his intention on that occasion. The role of Vice-President Dick Cheney's connection to Halliburton, is the appropriate typical example of that against which Eisenhower had warned. The entire history of the 1961-2007 period, from "the Bay of Pigs" to the presently endless war in Iraq and threatened war in Iran, will not be the end of it, unless we shut down what Eisenhower termed the "military-industrial complex."

There was never anything patriotic about the so-called "military- industrial complex;" it has been closer to treason, in fact. By now, even the most stubborn among honest soldiers should nod sadly, saying that I am right on this point.

Imagine a world in which globalization reigns like an empire over the planet as a whole. Call this "globalization." Have the power over that empire in the hands of a supranational gang of wild-eyed financial speculators, such as "hedge funds." How you manage military affairs when the power over military means is not longer under the full control of truly sovereign governments? There, in that question, you must read the meaning behind the phrase,"A Revolution in Military Affairs." Under that heading, properly understood, you will find the military policy which expresses the political intention behind the combined military, police, and private training in computer-modelled "killer games."

If you had my experience, after returning to the U.S. from Asia in Spring 1946, with my studies of the work of such as Professor Norbert Weiner, John von Neumann, and related programs of the late 1940s and 1950s at MIT's RLE, including my own specifications for my impromptu 1959 specifications for computer design of television presentations, you would better understand how programs such as computer war-games work on the mind of the person who plays them too often. Then you would understand how an event with certainty of the uncontested specifics of the Blacksburg event were induced in the perpetrator. You would also understand why this proliferation of such killer games was taken from its original base in military training for special operations, and used not only for brainwashing of police-force members, but also children.

The proliferation of such games is already a crime against humanity as much as the distribution of heroin, cocaine, and LSD.

The only purpose of killer games, apart from making purveyors of such games rich, is to turn people into zombie killers, who kill like automatons, as no person with a healthy mind could do. IF you would not put a drunk behind the wheel of an automobile, you would not put a human mind under the control of a computer killer- game: unless you were doing that for the kind of purposes behind the policies of wretches such as Vice-President Dick Cheney: "permanent warfare and permanent regime-change," all done in the service of a form of world-empire intended to be a Tower of Babel, an empire conducted as such under the deceptive title of "globalization."

The candidate-zombies hovering over their killer computer-games are zombies in the making, ready to march into the recruiting offices as ready-made zombie-killers in the likeness of "Terminator 2" to kill and be killed in the permanent wars of a new world empire of the kind which might have been designed by H.G. Wells.

We need real Marines, not men and women turned into zombies by computerized killer games.


You should check out the off-topic forum. If you ever want to chill out after making an awesome conspiracies, it would be the ideal place to do so!
:D

[KN]

I'll give LaRouche this much:

Training the god damn MARINES on video games or anything else that is not real life training is absolute bull****.

[Yukimura]

Alot of people seem to think I want them silenced.

While it's true I want them to be held responsible for there statments, everyone is free to stat an opinion. But stating an opinon and dressing up lies as facts are 2 different things.

Of the later, slander and defamation laws exsist and have exsisted for a reason.

AS for the Cult of Larouche, Personally, what I hate is not that they were at the V tech panel, but that the INdustry was NOT there to counter there BULL**** claims.

Where was Matt G, the new head of the esa. Where was Hal Halpin?

You know, having an industry lobby group is pointless if they aren't defending themselves or the industry DAMNIT!

:mad:

[nightwng2000]

Slander and defamation would be issues of making accusations against individuals and/or organizations.

But it is also true that, thanks to interactive media, not only can one side present its case in Public, so, too, can the opposing side.

While such individuals and organizations can make one sided comments and opinions in non-interactive news media, on their own websites, and elsewhere, places such as blogs and forums, as well as interactive media where comments on articles can be made, allow public discourse, both rational and irrational, to take place.

It is best done in interactive media and other interactive locations that individuals make such claims because the opposition can debunk such claims openly and just as publically.

With such interactive media, the trend of lawsuits should diminish simply because opposing opinions or facts can be presented. Only people like John Bruce would throw a tempertantrum and threaten a lawsuit in a location where he can publically dispute other people's opinions (unless he's broken the rules and been banned from responding, which still makes it a tempertantrum because he only has himself to blame).

[kurisu7885]

Slander and defamation would be issues of making accusations against individuals and/or organizations.

But it is also true that, thanks to interactive media, not only can one side present its case in Public, so, too, can the opposing side.

While such individuals and organizations can make one sided comments and opinions in non-interactive news media, on their own websites, and elsewhere, places such as blogs and forums, as well as interactive media where comments on articles can be made, allow public discourse, both rational and irrational, to take place.

It is best done in interactive media and other interactive locations that individuals make such claims because the opposition can debunk such claims openly and just as publically.

With such interactive media, the trend of lawsuits should diminish simply because opposing opinions or facts can be presented. Only people like John Bruce would throw a tempertantrum and threaten a lawsuit in a location where he can publically dispute other people's opinions (unless he's broken the rules and been banned from responding, which still makes it a tempertantrum because he only has himself to blame).

Slight problem with the website bit, as i have heard and seen with many ultra conservative websites, they can and will within 24 hours delete and or change any opposing viewpoints presented, and the person is effectively banned so they can't correct this.

[nightwng2000]

Slight problem with the website bit, as i have heard and seen with many ultra conservative websites, they can and will within 24 hours delete and or change any opposing viewpoints presented, and the person is effectively banned so they can't correct this.

True, and not just ultra-conservative forums. There are a great many websites which force a single sided opinion on readers. Usually, this ends up more of a war of forums by the banned person seeking out an opposing forum and complaining, sending other members to the biased forum.

It may also be true that potential lawsuits could stem from such events, though they are also less likely because the forum owner could say that the banned person broke some rule. These types of cases would lead to legal messes. A non-interactive site will more likely be susceptible to slander suits than an apparent interactive one.

Depending on one's financial standings, one may prefer to go the route of a forum war than pay for an attorney.

However, here are a couple of articles on libel and defamation:
http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1179479108731&pos=ataglance

http://www.blackamericaweb.com/site.aspx/bawnews/dontdatehim516

http://news.com.com/Even+in+Net+litigation,+its+all+about+location/2010-1028_3-6180169.html

[Soldat_Louis]

Last news : here is the larouchite's interview of Craig Anderson. (http://www.larouchepub.com/other/interviews/2007/3422craig_anderson.html)

Guess who interviewed him ? Don Phau. The guy who said that "violent video games should be banned like heroin". The same guy who wrote about the "satanic roots of rock'n'roll" years ago.

Note that Anderson's answers are much more moderate than Phau would want them to be.

For example, note this quote in Phau's question : "The most vehement opposition to the notion that video games can lead to violence, comes from the people who are playing them." And note this other quote : "You mention in your book the problem of enforcement of industry self-rating systems: that 82% of kids below 17 can buy "M"-rated ["mature"] games." The problem is that I've started to read Anderson's book and I haven't seen this 82% number yet.

And now, note Anderson's answers :

" I get e-mails that say, "I've played violent video games all my life and I've never killed anyone; so therefore, the research must be wrong." But none of the researchers have said that if you take a normal, healthy, well-adjusted person with no other risk factors, and have them play violent video games for a month or a year or five years, that they're going to become a school shooter, just on the basis of playing those games! That's not the way extreme violence occurs."

"A well-designed video game is an excellent teaching tool for a whole host of reasons. There are very positive uses of video games in educational domains, even in medical domains. But an excellent teaching tool teaches whatever the content is, whether for the benefit of society, or anti-social. "

PS : I think the title change in this thread is a good thing. Talking about "cult" may be too offensive for a thread title, while talking about "followers" is smoother and smarter.

[American_System]

NY Passes Anti-Violence Game Bill, Citizens of Mario Land Whimper (http://larouchepac.com/pages/breaking_news/2007/06/01/ny-anti-violence-game-bill.asp)

June 1, 2007 (LPAC (http://larouchepac.com)) -- The anti-video game legislation passed this week by the New State Assembly is provoking a furor among bachelors in their mother's basement nationwide. The legislation was introduced after the VA Tech shooting was connected to the perpetrator's obsession with violent first-person-shooter video games. The Assembly Speaker, Sheldon Silver (D-Manhattan), said in support of the bill, introduced by a Republican from Staten Island:

"Psychological experts have concluded that violent video games can desensitize players to the real-life consequences of violent actions. This legislation will protect our youngsters from being exposed to the detrimental impact of violent video games that promote depraved violence and brutalize and demean human beings"

The legislation also would establish an advisory council on interactive media and youth violence that would review the Entertainment Software Rating Board's (ESRB) rating system; examine how interactive media and other forms of electronic entertainment affect minors.

The video game lobby is very upset. Bo Anderson, President of the Entertainment Merchants Association (EMA) claimed that the law's liability would be predicated in part on whether a video game depicts "rape, dismemberment, physical torture, mutilation, or evisceration of a human body... This bill is impermissibly vague." Andersen said the bill "seeks to apply real- world standards of violence to the fictional and fanciful world of video games, an environment in which they have no meaning. As a result, retailers and clerks will not and cannot know with certainty which video games could send them to jail." With this new law in place, they should find out.

The EMA was created last year, merging together a number of video game merchant and retail groups. They are having their national convention at the "Venetian Casino" in Las Vegas, June 16-19, 2007.

[kurisu7885]

NY Passes Anti-Violence Game Bill, Citizens of Mario Land Whimper (http://larouchepac.com/pages/breaking_news/2007/06/01/ny-anti-violence-game-bill.asp)

June 1, 2007 (LPAC (http://larouchepac.com)) -- The anti-video game legislation passed this week by the New State Assembly is provoking a furor among bachelors in their mother's basement nationwide. The legislation was introduced after the VA Tech shooting was connected to the perpetrator's obsession with violent first-person-shooter video games. The Assembly Speaker, Sheldon Silver (D-Manhattan), said in support of the bill, introduced by a Republican from Staten Island[/QOUTE] Two things wrong with this. Unless you've met every last gamer, you can't make a blanket statement like that.

Second, it had been shown that Cho hadn't touched such games since high school. FAIL
[QUOTE]"Psychological experts have concluded that violent video games can desensitize players to the real-life consequences of violent actions. This legislation will protect our youngsters from being exposed to the detrimental impact of violent video games that promote depraved violence and brutalize and demean human beings"Again, wrong. Those studies had found no such definite link. these results come from thos who wish to twist these studies for their own agenda

The legislation also would establish an advisory council on interactive media and youth violence that would review the Entertainment Software Rating Board's (ESRB) rating system; examine how interactive media and other forms of electronic entertainment affect minors.Not needed as many agree with the ESRB.

The video game lobby is very upset. Bo Anderson, President of the Entertainment Merchants Association (EMA) claimed that the law's liability would be predicated in part on whether a video game depicts "rape, dismemberment, physical torture, mutilation, or evisceration of a human body... This bill is impermissibly vague." Andersen said the bill "seeks to apply real- world standards of violence to the fictional and fanciful world of video games, an environment in which they have no meaning. As a result, retailers and clerks will not and cannot know with certainty which video games could send them to jail." With this new law in place, they should find out.
Looks on the back of the game box. it's not that hard. There is a clear descriptor of everything on there. Also ,game developers have no reason to be upset as this bill will be shot down like la t he others.

Strong gore and violence or strong sexual themes would cover both of those.

The EMA was created last year, merging together a number of video game merchant and retail groups. They are having their national convention at the "Venetian Casino" in Las Vegas, June 16-19, 2007.

And that pertains to this, how?

[MachShot]

Aww, isn't that cute. The LaRouche Followers are trying to flame us with an editied copy of the GP news. I think someone here made them upset, unless this is the same person as laroucheyouth.

Look, if you want to make a logical defense of anti-game laws, feel free to do so. If you want to feed your ego with a name like American_System and make cheep edits on the news GP posts, similar to the edits you may have done to the history to your conspiracy theory then good luck getting credible respect.

[kurisu7885]

Aww, isn't that cute. The LaRouche Followers are trying to flame us with an editied copy of the GP news. I think someone here made them upset, unless this is the same person as laroucheyouth.

Look, if you want to make a logical defense of anti-game laws, feel free to do so. If you want to feed your ego with a name like American_System and make cheep edits on the news GP posts, similar to the edits you may have done to the history to your conspiracy theory then good luck getting credible respect.

Seconded, and the american system doesn't work that tha,t kindly change the name.

[Grahamr]

Aww, isn't that cute. The LaRouche Followers are trying to flame us with an editied copy of the GP news. I think someone here made them upset, unless this is the same person as laroucheyouth.

Look, if you want to make a logical defense of anti-game laws, feel free to do so. If you want to feed your ego with a name like American_System and make cheep edits on the news GP posts, similar to the edits you may have done to the history to your conspiracy theory then good luck getting credible respect.

I say we attempt a direct dialogue with their leadership, to either challenge them into a debate in which our logical superiority and manpower will triumph, or to merely demand they stop spamming our forum.

[Hannah]

I say we attempt a direct dialogue with their leadership, to either challenge them into a debate in which our logical superiority and manpower will triumph, or to merely demand they stop spamming our forum.

I have nothing against them posting here -- it's always good to see the other side of the debate -- but I wish they'd do more than copy/paste press releases. They don't even have to debate us, per se, just contribute and provide some evidence that they actually read our posts.

[kurisu7885]

I have nothing against them posting here -- it's always good to see the other side of the debate -- but I wish they'd do more than copy/paste press releases. They don't even have to debate us, per se, just contribute and provide some evidence that they actually read our posts.

seconded. All this tells mes is they're going "we're right, you all who actually have touched a controller are wrong" *runs*"

[American_System]

Watching your reactions to Mr. LaRouche's argument is hillariously entertaining.

To avoid a quality of impotence that you all seem to wield with pride, you might try pausing your games to actually read Samuel P. Huntington's book, The Soldier and the State.

So far, the relevance of this book to the topic of your forum has not yet been taken up in any of your posts.

We will continue taking over the Internet while you wallow in your own impotence.

Stay tuned, at www.larouchepac.com, and don't get caught selling violent games to minors in New York.

[laroucheyouth]

Greetings,

Its really simple. If you take the time to investigate the issue that Samuel Huntington poses in his book, referenced by my friend above, I dont really think a serious discussion can be had.

We now have a professional, almost mercenary army. We no longer have the quality of engineering based army used proudly in other, long past wars, like WW2.

I hope some of you here have also read David Grossman's book, "On Killing." Its true, in almost all such past school massacares and other related incidents, the shoot/kill ratio has far surpassed any war up to WW2, it was only until the shift in military policy, the Vietnam war, where we, the US Military, began to brainwash our troops to kill mindlessly, did such accurate shoot/kill ratios become recorded.

As Grossman correctly states, humans have a natural aversion to kill other humans. Killing is a skill that is learned and practiced, like any other human skill. I think anyone who thinks that humans are inherently evil creatures, or believes that killing is the "natural state" for humans, has already been infected with exactly the sickness that Grossman describes, and Huntington promotes.

-Adam

[Grahamr]

Ah, So now you adress us personally, and you tell us your name. Well, it's a pleasure to meet you, Adam of the Larouche Movement. The Name's Graham, but most people call me by my handle, Grahamr.

First of all....The flaw in Grossman's argument is that while the government DOES use video games to help train marines, it is merely to increase their hand-eye coordination and to practice using tactics....Perhaps if one was already disturbed or had a history of being violent or mentally disturbed, A violent video game had a far greater influence. But, people like that could be set off by the color of someone's tie.....

Second, FPS games were developed after the vietnam war....20 years after.

Lastly, How does a game controller or keyboard relate to firing a gun, with the kickback, the correct stance, reloading ETC??

I look forward to debating this further.

-Graham

[Grahamr]

Watching your reactions to Mr. LaRouche's argument is hillariously entertaining.

As was reading your posts....

To avoid a quality of impotence that you all seem to wield with pride, you might try pausing your games to actually read Samuel P. Huntington's book, The Soldier and the State.

Listen System, I'll check out that book, but i find it odd that you refer to us as "Impotent."

We're listening to your arguments...And we're replying, but the way you posted we thought you were bots of some sort.

So far, the relevance of this book to the topic of your forum has not yet been taken up in any of your posts.

We will continue taking over the Internet while you wallow in your own impotence.

Stay tuned, at www.larouchepac.com, and don't get caught selling violent games to minors in New York.

ROFL!!!!!

Man, System, you are a riot. You know that? :D

You seem to favor the word "Impotence", but i'm glad that the bill in NY passed so fast..... it will serve as more meat for the judicial grinder, which will undoubtably block the law on the basis of the first, eighth, or eleventh amendments.

Get off your soapbox, there is only one true power on the internet.....It's called /b/.

You want to keep this debate up??? Reply to my post with relevent arguments. I'll be ready any time :cool:

[kurisu7885]

Also, I have been playing video games for the better part of 15 years, since I was five years old, yet, I can never bring myself to harm even an ant. I mean it, I have played form the NES[Nintendo Entertainment System, in case you don't know what that means] to the Xbox 360, from Super Mario Brothers, to Mortal Kombat, to Doom, to Dead Rising, even the poster whipping boy, Grand Theft auto, ALL of them. By your logic, I should have been able to replace half a US army platoon, yet, I have never taken a life, can you explain this?

[MachShot]

Adam, I'm glad that you decided to continue here and not run away. Hone