More spin to illegal immigration

[Demontestament]

I heard two women at work talking about the great protests that are going on to protect all immigrants from being booted out of America. And how all the evil whites want the mexicans out of the US.

Can I say this again, nobody is trying to boot out legal immigrants. They are only trying to stop illegal ones from coming into the country. I hate it when these morons try to make it sound like the laws being proposed will deport all immigrants. I swear alot of these people who march in protest are ****ing morons who are uneducated on what is going on, hell even the people who put this **** together are dumber than a box of rocks when it comes to this.

Now I don't care if someone comes in from another country by legal means and does all the legal **** to become a citizen, hell I welcome them because they are willing to put forth the effort to become contributing citizens. What I don't like is when people sneak across the border illegally and then demand citizenship without wanting to do jack **** for it, you want citizenship? Then do how others have done it, the ****ing legal way.

Nobody is proposing we close all borders and shut out all immigrants, they want tougher laws and something done against Illegal immigration and those who violate the laws. Yes they are criminals, why? Because they broke a federal law when they crossed the border illegally. And I am all for smaller populations in the cities, maybe then American Citizens could find decent job and traffic problems would be reduced, there would be less crime that is for sure. Hell from a study I heard 47% of gang members in LA alone are illegal immigrants and 25% of all immates in California jails are Illegal as well. Why can't we ****ing have stricter laws or even enforce the ones we already have?

[Jabrwock]

Supply and demand.

There's a lot of demand for low-wage workers, and not enough supply. There's also not enough supply of work-visas.

So people come in illegally, because it's impossible for them to work in the US legally, no matter how hard they try.

[weatherlight]

I would like it if we showed up to these events offering a mandatory citizen check (free of charge). If you fail, you go straight onto the buses headed back to Mexico.

Now, I would also like it if all people showing up to these rallies flying big Mexican flags, speaking only Spanish were charged with treason, but that is just personal fantasy. I found it very upsetting when I saw a sea of Mexican flags, but only a couple American flags. Come on people, if you loved Mexico so much, solve the problem for us and go back there.

I have nothing against Hispanic’s, even dated one (first generation immigrant, legal). But my grandparents (on one side) and my great grandparents (on the other side) immigrated legally, so they can do the same.

[bayushisan]

Its typical politics these days. Ask for tougher immigration laws and you must be some racist swine. Its a way to shut the debate down before it begins.

[Grahamr]

If you lived in a dump, and you could sneak into a pleasent village illegally, would you still live in the dump out of fear of breaking the law???

It's a darwinesque topic, really. Species go wherever they can thrive, sometimes to the detriment of the species in that vicinity.

Scarily enough, we benefit from having all the cheap labor...so the U.S government turns a blind eye toward the issues with immigration, because they reap the benefits of the problem at hand.

Symbyotic relationship.

[weatherlight]

If you lived in a dump, and you could sneak into a pleasent village illegally, would you still live in the dump out of fear of breaking the law???
Not a fair comparison. If it could be done legally, which is the case here, then thats the way it should be done.

[KN]

Not a fair comparison. If it could be done legally, which is the case here, then thats the way it should be done.

To make the comparison more 'fair', let's assume that the people in the peaceful village have entrance requirements that you could never ever hope to meet, despite believing that everyone should have the same chance at getting somewhere.

[Hannah]

The question I have is... if it's so easy to immigrate legally, why don't they? Why do they cross a desert, run over the border (risking death or worse), and then try to make a new life in a country that doesn't even want them and gives them essentially no rights due to their illegal status? These people may be desperate, but they're not stupid. I'm pretty damn sure that they'd take the legal route if it was offered to them.

[seductivpancakes]

It's near impossible for immigrants to legally come to america. Not to mention extremly long time they make you wait before your case comes up. Its a very bad situation either way it goes. When those protests where going on across the country, I was half confused. It wasnt like the goverment want to ship all immigrants back to their countries, its just to stop future ones from crossing illegally.
I find it really dumb they blame it on racism. I dont want to sound like a racists, im a minority but I find blaming issues on racism when it has nothing to do about racism is a easy way out. They seem to do that a lot these days.

[Tollwutig]

Now, I would also like it if all people showing up to these rallies flying big Mexican flags, speaking only Spanish were charged with treason, but that is just personal fantasy. I found it very upsetting when I saw a sea of Mexican flags, but only a couple American flags. Come on people, if you loved Mexico so much, solve the problem for us and go back there.


What I find rather amusing is that the Mexican Flags were being carried by Natural born citizens of the U.S. Yep those waving the flags were most often the kids of legal immigrants, not the illegal ones. The illegals were waving U.S. flags more often than not.

As everyone else has stated I have no problem with legal immigration, it's the high amount of illegal immigration. Jabrwock is correct in that it is a simple supply & demand issue, unfortunately the Government doesn't want to really cut down on the demand because that would hurt U.S. industries. In reality they could put forth much tougher penalties towards those who hire illegals, and it would help solve the issue.

[steelcobra]

It's near impossible for immigrants to legally come to america. Not to mention extremly long time they make you wait before your case comes up. Its a very bad situation either way it goes. When those protests where going on across the country, I was half confused. It wasnt like the goverment want to ship all immigrants back to their countries, its just to stop future ones from crossing illegally.
I find it really dumb they blame it on racism. I dont want to sound like a racists, im a minority but I find blaming issues on racism when it has nothing to do about racism is a easy way out. They seem to do that a lot these days.

So, that would explain the two massive waves (Hmong, then Somali) of permanent resident refugees in Minnesota.

There are plenty of legal Mexicans in the states. They were the honest ones who actually worked to get where they are. I had an NCO from africa who gained citizenship. It's hard, but not impossible.

[Demontestament]

So, that would explain the two massive waves (Hmong, then Somali) of permanent resident refugees in Minnesota.

There are plenty of legal Mexicans in the states. They were the honest ones who actually worked to get where they are. I had an NCO from africa who gained citizenship. It's hard, but not impossible.

No it is not impossible, but people don't want to wait is the problem. Yeah it takes ten years and **** loads of work but it is worth it. By coming over illegally all they are doing is bringing down society by adding to the corruption of businesses who pay them **** wages because they are illegal and have no workers rights.

[Anjin-San]

Being of Mexican descent, I'd only like to add that anyone willing to brave a desert and avoid death at every turn to get into America, is a helluva lot more American than the folks who take said designation for granted.

[KN]

Being of Mexican descent, I'd only like to add that anyone willing to brave a desert and avoid death at every turn to get into America, is a helluva lot more American than the folks who take said designation for granted.

^^^^^^^^
Truth

[Demontestament]

Being of Mexican descent, I'd only like to add that anyone willing to brave a desert and avoid death at every turn to get into America, is a helluva lot more American than the folks who take said designation for granted.

Why because they cross a desert and risk death? Ok i will give them they have balls for doing that but look at who comes over the border illegally, yeah we have people just wanting to help their families, but we also get a ton of crap too. I am talking about the murderers who belong to the Mexican Mafia, The drug runners for drug cartells, gang bangers, theives, and all around trouble makers. If they want to get into America and be reconised as citizens they need to do it the legal way just like anyone else immigrating into the US. Why should we reward someone for breaking a law? Right now their reward is earning crap wages at the hands of some corrupt business who doesn't want to pay them a fair wage for the work they do, instead they make like two bucks and hour cleaning toilets and what not.

What I find funny is Mexico wants us to have open borders when they themsleves block their neighbors to the south from crossing into mexico illegally and have tough anti-illegal immigrant laws. A bit hypocritical don't you think?

Edit* And I am tired of hearing "They do jobs Americans wont do" bull****! They do jobs Americans won't do for the crap wages (2.00 an hour) the business want to pay. I want a law that is enforced that busts companies that hires any illegal immigrant, major cash fines would do nicely. Or stripping them of their business licence.

[steelcobra]

Problem is, that would cause:
A: Massive rises in the price of fruits & vegetables that cannot be picked by machine.
B: Massive shortages of same.

[seductivpancakes]

So, that would explain the two massive waves (Hmong, then Somali) of permanent resident refugees in Minnesota.

There are plenty of legal Mexicans in the states. They were the honest ones who actually worked to get where they are. I had an NCO from africa who gained citizenship. It's hard, but not impossible.
Im pretty sure everyone outside out our country sees our military as warmongers, and dont wish to join the army to get citizenship. Heck theres even a few cases when they try to deport a u.s soldier who was a immigrant. How some elderyly folks? Not everyone meets the age requirements for the military.

[Tollwutig]

My opinion is if we're getting this many of the people we should be allowed to annex the territory. Really if we were to annex Mexico we'd cut down the problem a lot.

[Picho]

The reason why the legals wont do the jobs is cause its easier just to collect and sit on your fat ass all day.

Lets see.. we have Alamony, child support, wellfair, food stamps, sue the random person of the day cause im a ****ing dumbass fund and so many more

Granted some people really do need these funds, but there is still a high number who wouldnt need them if they would actually go out and work.

[KN]

The reason why the legals wont do the jobs is cause its easier just to collect and sit on your fat ass all day.

Lets see.. we have Alamony, child support, wellfair, food stamps, sue the random person of the day cause im a ****ing dumbass fund and so many more

Granted some people really do need these funds, but there is still a high number who wouldnt need them if they would actually go out and work.

And because the notion now exists that primarily immigrants take advantage of such things, the huge amount of caucasian slackers that live of it go completely unnoticed. "Oh, this guy is white. He couldn't POSSIBLY be abusing the system!"

[Pelor]

Being of Mexican descent, I'd only like to add that anyone willing to brave a desert and avoid death at every turn to get into America, is a helluva lot more American than the folks who take said designation for granted.
I think most mexican illegals cross in the Tijuana area or pay for someone to smuggle them in a car trunk. Hoofing it across the desert does occasionally happen, but I think it's mostly myth.

But crawling through a Tijuana sewer is still pretty brave.

[weatherlight]

It's near impossible for immigrants to legally come to america. Not to mention extremly long time they make you wait before your case comes up.
Not true, it isn't easy, but it's not "near impossible". There are a large number of people legally migrating from all over the world. It’s a matter of reason, skill and effort. You can’t just move to the US because you feel like it, you have to have a plan, a reason for moving here, along with a skill to offer and the want to put in the effort to become a productive citizen.
Yes there is a wait, but it is not that long we are talking a couple years at the most. But people always want the fast-track with the least amount of work and least possibility for rejection.
On my dad’s side came from Asia they had to wait six months for the paperwork to clear, and they came not knowing how to read or write with very poor English and no money, but they had a plan, a skill and were willing to put in the effort.
What I find rather amusing is that the Mexican Flags were being carried by Natural born citizens of the U.S. Yep those waving the flags were most often the kids of legal immigrants, not the illegal ones. The illegals were waving U.S. flags more often than not.
I know, that’s why I say to go for treason, and they should move back down there if it’s so great. They should give the guy’s holding the American flag a green card and say welcome (if illegal).
So, that would explain the two massive waves (Hmong, then Somali) of permanent resident refugees in Minnesota.
Not to mention the ones from the Russian block, and the Arab's.

Edit* And I am tired of hearing "They do jobs Americans wont do" bull****! They do jobs Americans won't do for the crap wages (2.00 an hour) the business want to pay. I want a law that is enforced that busts companies that hires any illegal immigrant, major cash fines would do nicely. Or stripping them of their business licence.
Agreed, shut down those large businesses, if a small farm hired illegal’s up in northern Wisconsin their would be a fairly hefty fine that would likely put them out of business, for large companies the result should be the same.
Problem is, that would cause:
A: Massive rises in the price of fruits & vegetables that cannot be picked by machine.
B: Massive shortages of same.
Not totally true, most farms are not required to meet the normal state, or national minimum wage. I believe that for agriculture it is at around $2/hour. I have family who work the fields up in northern Wisconsin, for which I have joined them a couple of times. And a large number of the migrant farm workers (Americans included) take their pay from harvesting, in food and not in money, which is also a legal option at least in Wisconsin.
Large cooperate farms do not allow this option and are often required (due to overhead) to pay the full $6/hour wage plus benefits, which increases the cost to the workers, farm and consumers. So what they do to stay cheap is hire off the book workers.
So your logic is correct but only for the large cooperate farms.

[KN]

You're not real, are you? Please don't be real. Please be Stephen Colbert T_T

[steelcobra]

Not totally true, most farms are not required to meet the normal state, or national minimum wage. I believe that for agriculture it is at around $2/hour. I have family who work the fields up in northern Wisconsin, for which I have joined them a couple of times. And a large number of the migrant farm workers (Americans included) take their pay from harvesting, in food and not in money, which is also a legal option at least in Wisconsin.
Large cooperate farms do not allow this option and are often required (due to overhead) to pay the full $6/hour wage plus benefits, which increases the cost to the workers, farm and consumers. So what they do to stay cheap is hire off the book workers.
So your logic is correct but only for the large cooperate farms.

Most northern farms are grain/corn/soy producers. These are easily tended by only 2-5 people for over 100 acres from planting to harvest. Even the modern dairy farms only require a single family to operate. (My mom grew up on a Wisconsin dairy farm, so I know)

But most farms in California grow foods that can't be picked by machine. Strawberries, peppers, lettuce, tree fruits, etc., all have to be hand picked. Which means, to maintain current costs and keep prices down, they need a large number of people who each work fairly cheaply out in the fields picking them.

[weatherlight]

You're not real, are you? Please don't be real. Please be Stephen Colbert T_T
Depends on your definition of "real", I exist and those are my experience's. So I guess that I am real.
Most northern farms are grain/corn/soy producers. These are easily tended by only 2-5 people for over 100 acres from planting to harvest. Even the modern dairy farms only require a single family to operate. (My mom grew up on a Wisconsin dairy farm, so I know)

But most farms in California grow foods that can't be picked by machine. Strawberries, peppers, lettuce, tree fruits, etc., all have to be hand picked. Which means, to maintain current costs and keep prices down, they need a large number of people who each work fairly cheaply out in the fields picking them.
Go Wisconsin dairy farmers, There are still beans and squashes that must be picked by hand. I did beans, that was a bit of a pain. But my family got 2 years worth of caned beans out of three days of work.

[KN]

Depends on your definition of "real", I exist and those are my experience's. So I guess that I am real.


But are you Stephen Colbert?

[steelcobra]

But Wisconsin production isn't going to be severely inhibited by a lack of illegal workers. California's is. Where do you think strawberries, lettuce, tomatoes, and other short-life fresh vegetables and fruits come from in the winter? It sure as hell isn't the arctic states.

And I've lived in Minnesota nearly all my life. This quote from Game Informer definitely fits:
-17 Degrees Fahrenheit is pretty cold. Minnesota uses natural selection to weed out pansies.

To clarify though, I don't approve of illegal immigration in any form. But I do recognize the effect eliminating it will have.

[KN]

Holy ****, are you kidding? That's -27,2 celcius O_O

[steelcobra]

Minnesota has a special place right under the jet stream that makes it colder than Alaska in the winter. I was in the Rhein-Main area of Germany all winter this year and was enjoying how warm it was. It only dropped below 32F/0C a couple times. Hell, I started wearing just a t-shirt outside a couple weeks ago.

[weatherlight]

But are you Stephen Colbert?
No, I am not, sorry to disappoint.
But Wisconsin production isn't going to be severely inhibited by a lack of illegal workers. California's is. Where do you think strawberries, lettuce, tomatoes, and other short-life fresh vegetables and fruits come from in the winter? It sure as hell isn't the arctic states.

And I've lived in Minnesota nearly all my life. This quote from Game Informer definitely fits:

To clarify though, I don't approve of illegal immigration in any form. But I do recognize the effect eliminating it will have.
Strawberries are also northern Wisconsin, but not in winter

California, is mostly large cooperate farms, that are trying to save a buck. Which the previous statement applies. So, I agree with you there.
Minnesota has a special place right under the jet stream that makes it colder than Alaska in the winter. I was in the Rhein-Main area of Germany all winter this year and was enjoying how warm it was. It only dropped below 32F/0C a couple times. Hell, I started wearing just a t-shirt outside a couple weeks ago.
You should have seen the looks we got when a couple of us were in shorts, this weekend.

[steelcobra]

It's also warmer up north of here. I'm not quite at the shorts stage, but probably in a few weeks.

[weatherlight]

It's also warmer up north of here. I'm not quite at the shorts stage, but probably in a few weeks.
Ya, the problem in the north is the wind off of the sea. Not to much different then living next to lake Michigan. But its inconsistent.

[steelcobra]

You're almost in Denmark there, huh? My guess is that the thermal inconsistency from south to north is caused by the Alps.

[weatherlight]

You're almost in Denmark there, huh? My guess is that the thermal inconsistency from south to north is caused by the Alps.
Pretty much, NE of Hamburg by Travemunda if you know where that is.

[steelcobra]

I looked it up on google maps.

[weatherlight]

I looked it up on google maps.The joy's of the internet,

[Demontestament]

And because the notion now exists that primarily immigrants take advantage of such things, the huge amount of caucasian slackers that live of it go completely unnoticed. "Oh, this guy is white. He couldn't POSSIBLY be abusing the system!"

Actually here in California even the lazy white people get called on how long they are staying on welfare. But since nobody has the balls to enforce the law that was passed nothing will happen. Now yes white people are on it too but a large amount of people on welfare, at least in california are for lack of a better word at the moment minorities. And when there were talks about enforcing the law finally, where you have to show you are working atleast a total of 29 hours a week or your welfare is cut off people started to bitch and scream racisim. I have a lady who live around the block from me, who refuses to speak english, sits on welfare and doesn't take care of her 8 kids. Any time she thinks her welfare gets revoked she goes out, ****s some guy, gets pregnant and claims she needs it to raise her kids. Oh and the sad thing is, if any of her kids mutter a word of english around her she slapps the **** out of them and starts to scream at them in spanish. I know welfare was meant to help people but the law needs to be enforced so it stops breeding lazy people like her who do nothing but bring down the rest of society.

Funny thing, I saw her today with a shirt that says "Yeah I am Illegal, try and kick me out. We own California, **** whites" and it has a huge ass Mexican flag on the back.

[steelcobra]

Ah reconquista. As if California would be better off under the broken, corrupt government of Mexico.