Sometimes I wonders

[Yukimura]

Ok then, first, lemme send out a disclaimer.

1. The following video was found on youtube and was put together by the GOP website. Time and date of this video are not verified, but likely it was before the election.

2. While I have come out strongly in the past in favor of a change in leader ship, following several months of research, I don't think that the recent elections have improved or will improve things at all.

3. Regardless of the reasons for it, I fully support our troops and fully support our efforts in the middle east to put and end to terrorism. Even if I don't agree with the methods used or agree with the tactics used ((I think we should have turned any known or even suspected terrorist strongholds into glass long ago)), I will support our solders and will support there efforts.

Now, that being out of the way, heres a video I dug up on youtube while doing searchs. If you can belive it, the search string that eventually led me to this was "Newborn Kittens". I think youtube might have an issue with the videos it matchs to my searchs. Anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePb6H-j51xE&mode=related&search=

There you go, watch it, debate it, fight over it, whatever. But at least think about the fact that we seem to have gone from one administration to another, and yet nothing really changes except the party name. If a Dem wins in 08, I have to wonder, will america be better, or worse off?

:(

[John]

I can't watch the video due to YouTube being blocked, but how exactly does one win a war against 'terror'?

[Tollwutig]

Well the Dems aren't re-writing History, they all voted to oust Saddam Hussein, he's now dead, we've done our job we can leave now. Also it doesn't help they were reading the same faulty intelligence on his capabilities as the GOP, i.e. there were no weapons of mass destruction which was claimed to be an imminent threat to our security. Bush has yet to admit that he was wrong to go in the first place. The Dems at least admit the mistake.

[ZippyDSMlee]

Yukimura

Terror is oil,without oil we would not want to be there, without oil money they would not be able to branch out and gain fodder to attack us with,we will never be without terror because the corporations need the oil.

With that said how do we fight terror well we remove the goverment from the large breast of the corporations once that happens the US can fully fight on a diplomatic and economical front but until then its cheaper to waste lives and money on pointless wars to distract from the core of the problem.

edit
adding

In order to fight "terror" as it is currently described we need leadership and a goverment willing to follow the money and get things done no matter the cost to the corporate/elite, because we do not have the balls to do what need to be done we will use the army sloppily and waste time and money when things would be better dealt with from the top down a corporation sets up shop in a offending place fine them tax them same goes for any allies,make trade agreements that help us for a change and not just pad the pockets of faceless corporations do more things that actuality protect the people not claiming one thing and then letting their corporate buddies work everyone over...

[Theory?]

I had to stop watching the video because the comments below it were hurting my head like nothing else.

[Ace_ofspade]

I had to stop watching the video because the comments below it were hurting my head like nothing else.

Ow, my brain. =p

I thought Youtube was "hip"? What is it attracts all the fundamentalist hicks?

[KN]

Ok then, first, lemme send out a disclaimer.

1. The following video was found on youtube and was put together by the GOP website.

I stopped reading here.


Sorry, I can't take propaganda videos seriously.


The reason nothing has changed is because the president can still have his finger on the "gogogo veto" button at all times. Since everything congress proposes will get filibustered to death or vetoed, the republicans can pretend it isn't doing anything.

[bayushisan]

I watched the video in its entirety and it was interesting.


The election next year will prove to be interesting, irritating as well mind you but still interesting. The only thing that would make things better would be if Democrats actually stood up and said "Yeah I voted for the war in Iraq and here's why". Actually I'd like for both sides to just be honest about what they voted for and why.

[KN]

Alright, I suppose this is necessary.

HOLD UP EVERYONE.

Everyone sit down.


It's not the republicans' fault that they voted for the war. And neither of those democrats who did.


We know we have been lied to extensivly as to the need for this war. But we never seem to be able to link these lies to people voting for the war. They too were lied to.

There is absolutely no shame in changing your opinion now. I know Americans call this 'flip-flopping'. We call it 'admitting views can change as new information comes to light'.

Jesus ****ing christ, give these people a break.

[weatherlight]

Well the Dems aren't re-writing History, they all voted to oust Saddam Hussein, he's now dead, we've done our job we can leave now.
Um, its not that simple, you cant just oust a govornment and then leave. You have to replace it with a new govornment or you will be left in a worse position then you started with.

Also it doesn't help they were reading the same faulty intelligence on his capabilities as the GOP, i.e. there were no weapons of mass destruction which was claimed to be an imminent threat to our security.
Our intel wasnt faulty it was sadam's intel that was faulty, which ours is based off of. Simple truth, how do we know that they had "WMD's"? because we gave them to him. Just because he was to incomptent to mantain them does not mean that he did not have them.
Bush has yet to admit that he was wrong to go in the first place. The Dems at least admit the mistake.
He wasnt wrong, everyone voted on it. The president does not have the luxury of changing his oppinion on a whim, so while everyone else is saving their ass, because its not popular anymore, he has to continue. Admitting a mistake is also different then blaming it on bad information, provided by the other party.

I did find the video intersting, its kind of funny how now all the same people say that they have nothing to do with the situation in Iraq.

[KN]

Um, its not that simple, you cant just oust a govornment and then leave. You have to replace it with a new govornment or you will be left in a worse position then you started with.


Our intel wasnt faulty it was sadam's intel that was faulty, which ours is based off of. Simple truth, how do we know that they had "WMD's"? because we gave them to him. Just because he was to incomptent to mantain them does not mean that he did not have them.

He wasnt wrong, everyone voted on it. The president does not have the luxury of changing his oppinion on a whim, so while everyone else is saving their ass, because its not popular anymore, he has to continue. Admitting a mistake is also different then blaming it on bad information, provided by the other party.

I did find the video intersting, its kind of funny how now all the same people say that they have nothing to do with the situation in Iraq.

*click* ignore *click*

I can get tired of having to rebut the same bull**** over and over again.

[bayushisan]

If the intelligence at the time, and from as far back as the Clinton administration, said that Hussein was trying to develop nukes how does that count as a lie?

We know he had chemical and biological weapons, we also know he was trying to get nuclear capability. No lie was told to the American people. What may have happened, at least in so far as not having found anything, is that the weapons may have moved to an ally state.

What's truly irritating is seeing the footage from 98 that was basiclly saying what President Bush said 2005; and the democrats ignoring that fact.

[ZippyDSMlee]

If the intelligence at the time, and from as far back as the Clinton administration, said that Hussein was trying to develop nukes how does that count as a lie?

We know he had chemical and biological weapons, we also know he was trying to get nuclear capability. No lie was told to the American people. What may have happened, at least in so far as not having found anything, is that the weapons may have moved to an ally state.

What's truly irritating is seeing the footage from 98 that was basiclly saying what President Bush said 2005; and the democrats ignoring that fact.

Price V cost we went in for something REAL we where handed a mini vitenam, thus Bush and Co. became the "hero"....

[Yukimura]

That went pretty well.

either way, the point I was making was this. Politicans are always gonna be Politicans. Dems or REPS, they both have there failings. for example.

1. Reps: Pork barrel spending, beholding to the relegious nuts. Hard line corparate supporters.

2. Dems: Weak on national security, Willing to sit and do nothing about the countries immigration problems, to the point of offering amnestiy to illegals.

Thats just for starters.

Now, personally, I think the government should leave corporations alone for the most part. Admittedly, Enron showed that in some cases there we major issues, but america was built on free enterprise.

If you think the Dems, especially Liberal dems will make this country better, thats disengenious at best and stupid at worst. Sure, they make good promisies, but the clinton and carter years are proof that it doesn't work that way. Eitherway, one must ask what is the lesser of 2 evils.

A group trying to prevent lunatics and psychos from attacking america, or a group who will take all your money and give it to people who don't wanna work for it.

Thats pretty much where things stand.

And KN, you need to lay off the hate pills man. A closed mind will cripple you in life. I may disagree with Dems, but I'm willing to listen to them if they have good ideas. The problem is, what dems say, and what they do, are rarely, if ever, the same.

[KN]

And KN, you need to lay off the hate pills man. A closed mind will cripple you in life. I may disagree with Dems, but I'm willing to listen to them if they have good ideas. The problem is, what dems say, and what they do, are rarely, if ever, the same.

The exact same thing applies to the republicans. Since they both share this quality you must choose the lesser of two evils.

The lesser of two evils being the one that doesn't poke it's nose in our personal lives.

[Thefremen]

And KN, you need to lay off the hate pills man. A closed mind will cripple you in life. I may disagree with Dems, but I'm willing to listen to them if they have good ideas. The problem is, what Republicans say, and what they do, are rarely, if ever, the same.

fix'd.

GW, circa 1999: "I will not nation build"

GW, throughout his presidency: "Hoo-boy you know i gun nation build till they put in inta tha ground!"

[bayushisan]

Yeah because Democrats NEVER say one thing and do another. Oh wait all politicians do that.

[ZippyDSMlee]

Yukimura
"Willing to sit and do nothing about the countries immigration problems,"
uummmmm you do know that theres a equal ammount of reps that want them for thier corporate buddies as dims want them on humanitarian grounds...and cheap labor for their corporate buddies...

[Yukimura]

Yukimura
"Willing to sit and do nothing about the countries immigration problems,"
uummmmm you do know that theres a equal ammount of reps that want them for thier corporate buddies as dims want them on humanitarian grounds...and cheap labor for their corporate buddies...

Which is why I was in favor of having a change in leadership, but now the dems are offering amenisty. Hell of a change isn't it?

look guys, rep or dem, it's irrelevent. Right now, Polotics ****ing SUCKS! Personally, I hope the dems keep the senate and house and Rep gets the white house, at least then theres a level of balance. If the Dems get full control of the government. kiss your Personal freedoms good bye. It'll be no better then the Reps are.

And Kn, Yeah man, I feel ya there, like I said, both sides of the coin suck right now. Like KAIN said.

" Suppose on day, the coin lands on it'd edge". I keep hoping that one day, someone whose not hard left or hard right wins the white house and this country gets some common sense. But I'm not holding my breath.

[Thefremen]

Yeah because Democrats NEVER say one thing and do another. Oh wait all politicians do that.

See: my daily Obama rants.

[ZippyDSMlee]

Which is why I was in favor of having a change in leadership, but now the dems are offering amenisty. Hell of a change isn't it?

look guys, rep or dem, it's irrelevent. Right now, Polotics ****ing SUCKS! Personally, I hope the dems keep the senate and house and Rep gets the white house, at least then theres a level of balance. If the Dems get full control of the government. kiss your Personal freedoms good bye. It'll be no better then the Reps are.

And Kn, Yeah man, I feel ya there, like I said, both sides of the coin suck right now. Like KAIN said.

" Suppose on day, the coin lands on it'd edge". I keep hoping that one day, someone whose not hard left or hard right wins the white house and this country gets some common sense. But I'm not holding my breath.

Sadly its the way American goverment has been for the last 20 or 30 years one side gains power fcks over the goverment the other side brings it to center or left of center so the other side can fck it again there is a balance in letting them have control every other decade since both sides are so petty...

if Reps win again you will see the same lack of over site and control in goverment and corporation you have seen for the past 6 years you will also see the degrading of personal rights to fight oil,er terror.

Also reps are not afraid to get into pointless wars for pointless reasons,altho the dems are not much better,what is needed is someone whos willing to balance the budget keep us out of war and tax the rich a bit more so we can have a surplus again I dont see anyone will to do all thos things....

[Tollwutig]

See I have problems with both sides, but pertaining to this particular video

1) Intelligence said Saddam had WMDs since 1998. Both the Clinton and Bush administration saw the same Intelligence and made policy over it.

2) Bush initially followed Clinton's approach of harsher and harsher sanctions to force Saddam to comply, until Sept 11, 2001.

3) After the "War on Terror" began Iraq was seen a place where an ally nation could be established in the Middle East, this was helped with pressure coming from both Germany & Japan to lower troop levels in those nations which had been high since WWII.

4) 2002-2003 Bush Administration begins using existing intelligence to make a case for invading Iraq in the "War on Terror". Existing intelligence points to very specific data "revealing" weapons labs and the WMDs.

5) Iraq is invaded and Saddam is overthrown. The specific points where WMDs were supposed to be turn up false. No WMDs were found and evidence now turns up that they were never there in the first place.

6) Democrats now admit that the whole reason they voted on going into Iraq was poor intelligence and they made mistake in voting on going. Republicans just change the reason why they voted on invading Iraq in the first place, saying Iraq was support Al-Queda and terror.

7) Due to failed Administrative policies and poor judgment Iraq is now a cesspit of violence and quite possibly worse off than it was under Saddam, and now the middle east hates the United States more than ever.

8) After losing control in both Houses of Congress the Bush Administration after 2 years of denial, admits that it needs to change policy in Iraq. Democrats decide that enough is enough and it is time to pull out of Iraq and lick our wounds. Republicans call this as re-writing History.

Now given all of this, the Democrats are just as guilty of double speak and double standards as the Republicans, but in this instance Democrats have not actually re-written History, they admit that at the time Iraq seemed like an imminent threat, but given the evidence of today, it wasn't and a mistake was made.

[Thefremen]

See I have problems with both sides, but pertaining to this particular video

1) Intelligence said Saddam had WMDs since 1998. Both the Clinton and Bush administration saw the same Intelligence and made policy over it.

2) Bush initially followed Clinton's approach of harsher and harsher sanctions to force Saddam to comply, until Sept 11, 2001.

3) After the "War on Terror" began Iraq was seen a place where an ally nation could be established in the Middle East, this was helped with pressure coming from both Germany & Japan to lower troop levels in those nations which had been high since WWII.

4) 2002-2003 Bush Administration begins using existing intelligence to make a case for invading Iraq in the "War on Terror". Existing intelligence points to very specific data "revealing" weapons labs and the WMDs.

5) Iraq is invaded and Saddam is overthrown. The specific points where WMDs were supposed to be turn up false. No WMDs were found and evidence now turns up that they were never there in the first place.

6) Democrats now admit that the whole reason they voted on going into Iraq was poor intelligence and they made mistake in voting on going. Republicans just change the reason why they voted on invading Iraq in the first place, saying Iraq was support Al-Queda and terror.

7) Due to failed Administrative policies and poor judgment Iraq is now a cesspit of violence and quite possibly worse off than it was under Saddam, and now the middle east hates the United States more than ever.

8) After losing control in both Houses of Congress the Bush Administration after 2 years of denial, admits that it needs to change policy in Iraq. Democrats decide that enough is enough and it is time to pull out of Iraq and lick our wounds. Republicans call this as re-writing History.

Now given all of this, the Democrats are just as guilty of double speak and double standards as the Republicans, but in this instance Democrats have not actually re-written History, they admit that at the time Iraq seemed like an imminent threat, but given the evidence of today, it wasn't and a mistake was made.

In other words, the Bush administration says that we're at war with Eurasia, we were always at war with Eurasia.