New week, New school, New gun [Archive]

nightwng2000

10-09-2006, 02:02 PM

._.

Where in hell did a junior high student get an AK47?

GTA probably? Or America's Army? Ya know all guns kids get their hands on come from video games.

This one sounded like a cry for help too. He just wanted someone to pay attention to him. I mean, you don't go in with an AK 47, fire off a shot, and then give up unless you're doing it only half heartedly.

10-09-2006, 02:40 PM

._.

Where in hell did a junior high student get an AK47?

Someone probably owned. Which leads one to ask why the **** anyone needs to own an AK47.

Thefremen

10-09-2006, 02:51 PM

Someone probably owned. Which leads one to ask why the **** anyone needs to own an AK47.

For hunting of course!

Hunting American Soldiers.

Ace_ofspade

10-09-2006, 02:58 PM

This one sounded like a cry for help too. He just wanted someone to pay attention to him. I mean, you don't go in with an AK 47, fire off a shot, and then give up unless you're doing it only half heartedly.

It reminds me of the Calvin and Hobbes where Calvin pops a paper bag in his mom's face and says "Pay attention to me." You know, only with a gun.

nightwng2000

10-09-2006, 03:00 PM

For hunting of course!

Hunting American Soldiers.

Cripes but I love to see the articles where people actually do claim they need an AK 47 to go duck hunting.

I don't want to turn this into another gun rights thread, but really, what the heck kind of duck (or any other animal) hunter actually NEEDS something like an AK 47?

Silver_Derstin

10-09-2006, 03:04 PM

AK47 doesn't make a good hunting gun, actually. It's a bit more accurate then a M16, but it's built for long lasting resilience and not for accuracy.

And I wonder why a 13 years old had a AK47... Shouldn't he have had one of the more modern versions of the thing?

wxDiva

10-09-2006, 03:08 PM

Since he didn't actually injure anyone, he'll probably be charged with attempted murder and spend the rest of his life in a mental institution.

Garbage Pail Kid

10-09-2006, 04:19 PM

I want to know the background of this. Usually, when someone so young does something that, its either because he is very mentally ill or it means something bad was done to him to push him over the edge. This isn't always true but it isn't uncommon. I doubt he'll be charged with attempted murder, since he didn't shoot at anyone (he shot at the ceiling.)

Edit: You can get high powered weapons on the black market if you know who to talk to. Gun control isn't going to prevent smuggling. I'm not saying that's how he got his because I don't know, but if he was determined enough to get an assault rifle, he would have anyway.

Cecil475

10-09-2006, 04:22 PM

._.

Where in hell did a junior high student get an AK47?

He used the handy dandy "children shout:* WEAPONS CHEAT!!

R1, R2, L1, R2, Left, Down, Right, Up, Left, Down, Right, Up

On a more serious note, I havent a clue. That is one nasty pice of hardware.

- Warren Lewis

Silver_Derstin

10-09-2006, 04:29 PM

On a more serious note, I havent a clue. That is one nasty pice of hardware.

- Warren Lewis

Well, AKs ARE the most produced assault weapon on the black market out there, so it's not THAT hard to get your hands on one if you know where to look for one. It also uses very regular ammos, so even that is not very hard to acquire.

pixelante_ninja

10-09-2006, 04:30 PM

I doubt he'll be charged with attempted murder, since he didn't shoot at anyone (he shot at the ceiling.)
If you read the rest of the story he also planned to detonate IEDs throughout the school, which is why he kept on saying "Don't make me do this"

Garbage Pail Kid

10-09-2006, 04:49 PM

If you read the rest of the story he also planned to detonate IEDs throughout the school, which is why he kept on saying "Don't make me do this"

It says that he had a note in his backpack saying he had planted a bomb. It doesn't say whether or not the police found anything.

Lost Watcher

10-09-2006, 05:29 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/10/09/missouri.school.ap/index.html
Another article bit more detail.

BetaSword

10-09-2006, 05:34 PM

Oy... What the hell's going on in the world this last month or so? Why is everyone choosing now to start attacking schools and stuff? Could Ragnarok be upon us? Or something like that? hrmm...

Anyways. I think I'll have to agree that it seems like this kid didn't intend on killing anyone in the first place. Otherwise he wouldn't have let them convince him to leave the school.

Though... What was he doing with an AK-47, and at least two other rifles to begin with? Talk about poor parenting skills...

beemoh

10-09-2006, 06:17 PM

Cripes but I love to see the articles where people actually do claim they need an AK 47 to go duck hunting.

I don't want to turn this into another gun rights thread, but really, what the heck kind of duck (or any other animal) hunter actually NEEDS something like an AK 47?

It's stress relief for when that BLOODY DOG pops out of the bushes to laugh because you missed.

PyroHazard

10-09-2006, 11:32 PM

Haha, this kid had school shooting blue-balls or some sort of wicked divine intervention. :confused:

I remember back in 8th grade I went to science class with this goofy kid who was obsessed with russian artillery and WW2 artifacts. He was called into the office one day because he accidently left one of his drawings on one of the desks he was using.

He used the handy dandy "children shout:* WEAPONS CHEAT!!

If he was smart, he would of used the infinite ammo cheat as well.

illspirit

10-10-2006, 02:16 AM

Cripes but I love to see the articles where people actually do claim they need an AK 47 to go duck hunting.

I don't want to turn this into another gun rights thread, but really, what the heck kind of duck (or any other animal) hunter actually NEEDS something like an AK 47?

Err, why wouldn't they need an AK? Seriously. What do you (or anyone else) think is so special about an AK which would disqualify it for hunting? I'm not being snarky, just curious.

Beej

10-10-2006, 02:41 AM

So, just for those of you who didn't read the CNN article:

First, it was not an AK-47. It was a Mac-90. It looks like an AK-47. His parents owned it and kept it in a safe. The boy knew the combination.

It is also common for people in the area to own this type of weapon. (The article calls them "assault rifles".)

He fired one shot into the ceiling, then the rifle jammed, and he ran away.

A note in his backpack mentioned an explosive, but none were found.

He was obsessed with the Columbine incident, that's why he did it.

The only problem I see here is that the boy didn't know how to react when the rifle jammed. He kept trying to shoot. Very dangerous. He should have cleared the jam first.

If you have firearms in the house, and your 13 year old child doesn't know how to shoot them, that should be child endangerment. There is always a chance the child will find the weapons, even in a safe, and untrained use of a firearm can be extremely dangerous.

By 13, they should already be very familiar with the safe use and handling of firearms. That lessens the chance of them accidentally shooting themselves or another person.

Thefremen

10-10-2006, 05:47 AM

Mairie

10-10-2006, 09:07 AM

If you have firearms in the house, and your 13 year old child doesn't know how to shoot them, that should be child endangerment. There is always a chance the child will find the weapons, even in a safe, and untrained use of a firearm can be extremely dangerous.

By 13, they should already be very familiar with the safe use and handling of firearms. That lessens the chance of them accidentally shooting themselves or another person.

while i do agree with the safety aspect, in this case the consequences would've been ugly. knowing how to handle fire arms does decrease the chance of shooting yourself or another by accident but it raises the potential for damage and casualties when using them deliberately.

with more training the kid might've just cleared the jam and gunned everyone down.

nightwng2000

10-10-2006, 10:02 AM

Err, why wouldn't they need an AK? Seriously. What do you (or anyone else) think is so special about an AK which would disqualify it for hunting? I'm not being snarky, just curious.

Why would anyone need a rapid repeating fire weapon to hunt? A shotgun, a rifle, or a handgun should be more than enough to either challenge one's self in sport and for obtaining food, a bird full of buckshot is bad enough I would expect. If someone is such a bad hunter that they need to fill the sky with lots of bullets at once, maybe they should become a vegetarian instead. Vegetables are easier to catch. And while it is true that some of the weapons are actually semi-automatic and can fire single rounds, why not simply buy weapons designed for single round fire to begin with?

There's really no logical reason to need an assault rifle of any kind to shoot a duck or quail. And while a bear may be bigger, the image of someone standing there firing round after round into such a creature makes me wonder just what their motive is as opposed to firing 1 or 2 shotgun blasts into the creature.

nightwng2000

10-10-2006, 10:13 AM

As Beej points out, the CNN story differs slightly from the MSNBC story. MSNBC, for example, is saying that some individuals talked the kid into leaving the building. And they still aren't reporting the gun jamming.

But both still say the kid begged for them to not make him do this. And while the notes imply a well thought out plan, it doesn't appear that he his heart was totally in it. True, he made the first move by going. But from the sounds of it, he was talked out of it almost as easy. Could have been worse.

The CNN story also says HE didn't have any disciplinary problems. But that doesn't mean he wasn't a victim of some form of abuse, in or out of the school.

Unfortunately, just as with this school violence summit, it sounds like where the abuse starts will be overlooked. Whether he was troubled to begin with or a long time victim of one or more forms of abuse may very well be overlooked. I'm dacing around that issue as we know what may very well happen, both in this case as well as at the summit on violence. Abuse in and out of school will be overlooked in the name of agenda seeking.

Silver_Derstin

10-10-2006, 11:03 AM

nightwng2000:

People would need to recognise that there is abuse in school for it to be overlooked. They don't even recognise the fact that bullying exists, saying things like "Boys will be boys" and "Come on, they're just having fun."

Anjin-San

10-10-2006, 11:15 AM

._.

Where in hell did a junior high student get an AK47?

Hell, they sell them at a store around my way, in addition to semi-auto tommy guns.

illspirit

10-10-2006, 11:47 AM

Why would anyone need a rapid repeating fire weapon to hunt?
The gun in question, along with 99.99% of the AK clones sold on the civilian market are not full auto.

or a handgun
Handguns are just as rapid-fire as a civilian AK. And most pistols these days have mags with a higher capacity (mine is 15, some go up to 17) than most AK clones ship with ("post ban" single-stacks hold ten). Granted, you can buy surplus 30 round mags (or 100+ round drums), but those exist for pistols as well. ;)

And while it is true that some of the weapons are actually semi-automatic and can fire single rounds, why not simply buy weapons designed for single round fire to begin with?
Probably the same reason most non-assaulty hunting rifles carry multiple rounds? And probably the same reason lots of them are semi-auto as well? I don't hunt (vegetarian), but I would imagine follow-up shots come in quite handy if the first round misses.

*edit- Err, wait. Do you mean a rifle designed to fire semi-auto? Or one you have to manually load a new cartridge in after every shot? If the prior, umm, the AK was designed to fire full and semi automatic. The only time you really use full-auto is to lay suppressive/cover fire. Otherwise you're supposed to fire aimed shots one at a time.

There's really no logical reason to need an assault rifle of any kind to shoot a duck or quail.
There's probably no logical reason to use any rifle on duck or quail. A shotgun with bird shot would make more sense there. :p

And while a bear may be bigger, the image of someone standing there firing round after round into such a creature makes me wonder just what their motive is as opposed to firing 1 or 2 shotgun blasts into the creature.
1 or 2 shotgun blasts might take out a bear. But if you're out hunting with a rifle, you'll be lucky to stop it with a whole box of ammo. Especially with a relatively low-power cartridge like the AK uses.

10-10-2006, 12:28 PM

The question still remains why hunting clubs cannot simply distribute these guns to their members when they show up to hunt.

illspirit

10-10-2006, 12:55 PM

The question still remains why hunting clubs cannot simply distribute these guns to their members when they show up to hunt.

Because most people don't belong to a hunting club? Because the rifles are private property? Because lots of people hunt on their own land or their friends'?

That's a bit of a red herring anyway. Even in the UK, gun control capital of the world, one can keep a hunting rifle at their house. In fact, you can even own an AK-47 there as long as the gas piston is removed so that it must be manually cocked after each shot.

Tollwutig

10-10-2006, 01:01 PM

The question still remains why hunting clubs cannot simply distribute these guns to their members when they show up to hunt.

Well first you'd have to have hunting clubs to begin with KN. That is more of a European Convention than an American one. Most groups that go hunting here are just individuals on private or in some cases public land. The most organization that goes on is when a couple of friends or a family plans a hunting trip. Sometimes the extremely wealthy will join social clubs for hunting but the large majority of hunters are not members of such groups.

Also remember most hunting occurs on privately owned land. Land prices are vastly cheaper in the US compared Europe especially in the Rural areas where hunting takes place so it isn't unknown for someone to own a few hundred acres of land in a rural area that they use just for hunting. Telling someone over here they don't have a right to own the equipment and hunt on their own land, well let's just say it'd end in a Civil War over here.

Beej

10-11-2006, 01:49 PM

while i do agree with the safety aspect, in this case the consequences would've been ugly. knowing how to handle fire arms does decrease the chance of shooting yourself or another by accident but it raises the potential for damage and casualties when using them deliberately.

with more training the kid might've just cleared the jam and gunned everyone down.

I totally agree, but my point was that the failure to clear the jam is an inconsistency in the story.

The parents said the boy "knew" the combination to the gun safe, not that he "had figured it out". The tells me that the parents had told him the combination. This leads me to believe that they trusted him with the gun, because they had already trained him in the safe use and handling of firearms. They gave him the combination to the gun safe so he would be able to use the gun to defend the home if someone was breaking in.

So, the fact that the boy didn't clear the jam leads me to one of several conclusions:

1) In the heat of the moment, the boy panicked under the pressure. Fairly likely for a 13 year old.

2) He actually only loaded one round into the rifle, which he always intended to shoot into the ceiling. This would indicate that the entire thing was a cry for attention. The story is unclear as to whether the police reported they had found the gun jammed, or if the witnesses reported the gun jamming.

3) The parents were irresponsible, and let an untrained 13 year old have access to firearms.

10-11-2006, 02:00 PM

Fixed:

3) The parents were irresponsible, and bought a ****ing gun in the first place

Now, Kirby shall dance

(>^_^)>

<(^_^<)

illspirit

10-11-2006, 03:14 PM

Aww, how nice, a polite conversation turned into a childish ad hominem attack with "dancing" emoticons because someone can't come up with a rebuttal to back up why they feel the rest of the world should submit to their totalitarian communist view. :rolleyes:

Demontestament

10-11-2006, 03:26 PM

Fixed:

Now, Kirby shall dance

(>^_^)>

<(^_^<)

And throw a Hadouken

(>^_^)> =@

beemoh

10-11-2006, 03:32 PM

And throw a Hadouken

(>^_^)> =@

http://www.bash.org/?209228

10-11-2006, 04:36 PM

****, you beat me to the Suprise Buttseckz Kirby.

Now I will have to use..

BUKKAKE KIRBY!

(>^_^)> ~~~~~~~>(O_O)>~~~~~~~~<(^_^<)

Jabrwock

10-11-2006, 05:20 PM

Well first you'd have to have hunting clubs to begin with KN. That is more of a European Convention than an American one. Most groups that go hunting here are just individuals on private or in some cases public land. The most organization that goes on is when a couple of friends or a family plans a hunting trip. Sometimes the extremely wealthy will join social clubs for hunting but the large majority of hunters are not members of such groups.

Also remember most hunting occurs on privately owned land. Land prices are vastly cheaper in the US compared Europe especially in the Rural areas where hunting takes place so it isn't unknown for someone to own a few hundred acres of land in a rural area that they use just for hunting. Telling someone over here they don't have a right to own the equipment and hunt on their own land, well let's just say it'd end in a Civil War over here.
In Canada if you own a handgun you can only store it at a gun club or at home, and you need a permit to transport it anywhere but between the two. But for long guns there's no such restriction. (There would be storage restrictions, but the Conservative government refuses to enforce them because they hate gun control)

10-11-2006, 05:21 PM

communist

You just failed it. Forever.

illspirit

10-11-2006, 07:44 PM

You just failed it. Forever.

Is forever longer or shorter than the time it's been since you posted this?

The question still remains why hunting clubs cannot simply distribute these guns to their members when they show up to hunt.

You are suggesting that people may not posses their own rifle (private property), and that instead it must be under the control of some sort of collective "hunting club." This would also involve telling people whether they can or cannot hunt or keep the rifle on their own land (again, private property). This is textbook communism...

Garbage Pail Kid

10-11-2006, 08:07 PM

The question still remains why hunting clubs cannot simply distribute these guns to their members when they show up to hunt.

The child in question had an AK. AKs have nothing to do with hunting, and you can easily buy them illegally if you know who to ask.

I'll go ahead and answer your question anyway: Not everyone who hunts belongs to a hunting club. Some people prefer to hunt by themselves or with their friends or family.

nightwng2000

10-13-2006, 10:00 AM

Ok, a little more update on this story:
http://www.joplinglobe.com/local/local_story_284012803

Be sure to hit "read more" at the bottom of the story as there are multiple pages to this story.

Most notable is that there appears to be NO link to Columbine or any other school shooting beyond the use of a Trench Coat. Officals said he doesn't appear to have any interest in Columbine or other school shootings (as some of the other recent school shootings refer to an interest in such).

illspirit

10-13-2006, 10:39 AM

Most notable is that there appears to be NO link to Columbine or any other school shooting beyond the use of a Trench Coat. Officals said he doesn't appear to have any interest in Columbine or other school shootings (as some of the other recent school shootings refer to an interest in such).

I'd take that with a grain of salt for now. The article also says this:

He said it is his understanding that the assault rifle was registered and was in legal possession of the parents, but he declined to say under whose name it was registered.

There is no gun registration in Missouri. If the journalist/police/defense/whoever haven't figured that part out yet, who knows what else they've missed.